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Is it really so hard to make money being an EDM artist?

Home :: General Discussion :: Is it really so hard to make money being an EDM artist?Reply

Is it really so hard to make money being an EDM artist? Posted on: 05.09.2012 by Rey Holubar Hi, There are some interesting points made by a couple of users in another thread about how hard it is for the artists who create EDM to actually make even a living from it. I'd like to open up a discussion on what issues there are to getting EDM creations "paid for" and hopefully some experienced EDM artists could chime in and give their opinion. Of course, everyone is welcome to shout out, but I am looking for reasons why the return of hard work is so poor. Is it because of music piracy? Is it because the labels take too big a cut? Is it because societies don't do a good enough job protecting usage of the artists' works? So I guess my question is, Why can't you make good money being an EDM artist? scamo
Darren Teboe 08.09.2012	Originally Posted by jakeintox On a more serious note, selling tracks is not how artists and songwriters make money. Putting out a track or an album isn't where the cash lies, it's with merchandise and ticket sales. Always has been, but has been made more so by digital single sales eating into album sales. wrong... sort of. An artists actually used to be able to make a decent paycheck off of music sales. While it doesn't come close to the revenue touring brings in, it was big enough that people I know had to pick up other forms of income to make up for the hit that the digital revolution took on their production wallets.
Shonda Soulier 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by calgarc i signed in december of 2010... now i signed a 10 year contract and am locked for 5 years... so after 5 years i can sign with another label if i want, and after 10 years the contract is over and i get all the rights to my music back... now every track i want to sell is sold under that label, but i do have the option put out some tracks/remixes for free. and yes all decent labels will be selective on what they choose to release, you don't wanna release a bad track. for instance, my album was released last year no problem, but the EP i created with my friend just wasn't up to par. they told me i needed to refine the songs Right on, man. Good for you. So in another thread Shredder and I are talking about streaming services. What's your take on Spotify, Pandora, Slacker, etc.? How do artists look at these services? What are the benefits/drawbacks?
Stanley Topoleski 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by Lilac This brings up an interesting point. Is anyone here signed? And if they are, is it all tracks produced or just certain ones that they sign? I always thought that when you get signed, all your music belongs to the label but apparently not. My friend was signed earlier in the year and apparently they only pick up a few of his tracks if they're good enough i signed in december of 2010... now i signed a 10 year contract and am locked for 5 years... so after 5 years i can sign with another label if i want, and after 10 years the contract is over and i get all the rights to my music back... now every track i want to sell is sold under that label, but i do have the option put out some tracks/remixes for free. and yes all decent labels will be selective on what they choose to release, you don't wanna release a bad track. for instance, my album was released last year no problem, but the EP i created with my friend just wasn't up to par. they told me i needed to refine the songs
Stanley Topoleski 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by scamo Interesting stuff and a nice discussion. Is it really necessary to have a label for you to sell your tracks? I also noticed some tracks fall under different labels? What's up with that? Do labels sometimes fight for a track? I mean, if they did, that would be leverage to make more money, wouldn't it? scamo no its not necessary to have a record deal, but people treat you differently when you do. its like walking into a fancy restaurant with jeans and a ripped shirt as opposed to going there with a nice shirt and fancy pants... its all about who you are locked into... labels like zouk have a different sound then labels like magic island... you might work with an artist signed to zouk, while you on the other hand are signed to magic. some people have multiple deals. you very rarely see a rock band singed to a label that caters to house music... or a dubstep artist on a label that caters to classical music
Ara Tima 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by scamo Interesting stuff and a nice discussion. Is it really necessary to have a label for you to sell your tracks? I also noticed some tracks fall under different labels? What's up with that? Do labels sometimes fight for a track? I mean, if they did, that would be leverage to make more money, wouldn't it? scamo Well it depends, some musicians are absolutely shit house at the admin and paperwork involved with releasing stuff, a lot of people don't like that side of the business. A lot of the time you need a label for distribution at the very least, they have the contacts, unless you have a massive web presence. Though I'm sure it's changed a lot with Beatport, I'm more talking from traditional methods. That said a tune will sell shitloads more if it's on a respected label, lots of DJs still shop by label. Certain labels will be must-listens no matter what for most people. Tracks will be released on different labels because they were licensed to a certain label for a certain territory or under certain conditions. For example an artist in Australia might create a track, sign it to a smallish label for Australia only, then it sells well in Australia so they believe OK, I'll shop it around to some European labels.... Then they try some US labels... Next thing you know the same song has been released on 4 different labels in a year or two. This is less common in a digital age, but occurred regularly in the vinyl days. Sure labels can fight for a track, they could offer all sorts of different conditions/royalty splits/advances or maybe a label just has a better track record of looking after artists and getting results.
Ara Tima 06.09.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c Spoken like a true business man... that is what will kill the whole bit about Dance music being independent and underground, which is kind of the foundation of why it exists.. The music is the reason the other guys put on a suit and tie and the internet should render old ways of marketing and distribution less important as you can easily market yourself if you have a couple of hours spare a week.. Necessary evil, especially outside of the EDM world where self promotion becomes a lot more restrictive. Small to mid range DJs have always made the bulk of their cash from touring. Like lots have said make good music, sell a little bit on the strength of the music actually being decent then as a result you should get more DJ bookings and be able to charge a higher price. Or sell your songs to adverts/TV shows. Synchronization is where all the money in music is being made these days. Big big big money.
Stanley Topoleski 06.09.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c I disagree... It shouldn't have to be about "making it" It should be about getting your cut from your creation so you can afford to spend more time creating more and learning new skills. There are plenty of great producers who haven't "made it" selling bulk tracks but not getting a just financial reward. Most of us pay for music, but if it goes to paying off the owner of beatports Ferrari payments or the agents summer home and not the producers studio what is the point of paying... The only reason I buy tracks is I like to believe it helps support the producers.. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be true.. I might start buying tracks directly from the labels website, atleast most of that will get to the producer... true thats why i am selective on what labels i buy from and what labels i pirate from, but i always pay and go to the show
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 06.09.2012	Originally Posted by sss18734 This. How many artists do you believe are really "making it?" It takes a lot more than sitting on a laptop producing music to do so. Bluntly, the music itself isn't really THAT valuable - which is why 99.9% of the people that make music fail - they believe all they have to do is come with with a catchy tune and they'll make millions. Not true (with a few exceptions... lol). But the whole package? The music, the show, the promotion, the brand, the tour, the light show, the drinks and food sold AT the tour, etc etc? Now we're talking. Learn how to incorporate everything and THEN you will make money. Successful artists aren't just good at making music... They're good business people and know how to network well. I disagree... It shouldn't have to be about "making it" It should be about getting your cut from your creation so you can afford to spend more time creating more and learning new skills. There are plenty of great producers who haven't "made it" selling bulk tracks but not getting a just financial reward. Most of us pay for music, but if it goes to paying off the owner of beatports Ferrari payments or the agents summer home and not the producers studio what is the point of paying... The only reason I buy tracks is I like to believe it helps support the producers.. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be true.. I might start buying tracks directly from the labels website, atleast most of that will get to the producer...
Erica Charvet 06.09.2012	Originally Posted by squidot i don't even believe it's about "edm" or electronic music artists at all, really. i believe it's hard to make money as any sort of musician or artist, period. This. How many artists do you believe are really "making it?" It takes a lot more than sitting on a laptop producing music to do so. Bluntly, the music itself isn't really THAT valuable - which is why 99.9% of the people that make music fail - they believe all they have to do is come with with a catchy tune and they'll make millions. Not true (with a few exceptions... lol). But the whole package? The music, the show, the promotion, the brand, the tour, the light show, the drinks and food sold AT the tour, etc etc? Now we're talking. Learn how to incorporate everything and THEN you will make money. Successful artists aren't just good at making music... They're good business people and know how to network well.
Edwardo Rothenberger 06.09.2012	To believe that I used to pay
Darren Teboe 08.09.2012	Originally Posted by jakeintox On a more serious note, selling tracks is not how artists and songwriters make money. Putting out a track or an album isn't where the cash lies, it's with merchandise and ticket sales. Always has been, but has been made more so by digital single sales eating into album sales. wrong... sort of. An artists actually used to be able to make a decent paycheck off of music sales. While it doesn't come close to the revenue touring brings in, it was big enough that people I know had to pick up other forms of income to make up for the hit that the digital revolution took on their production wallets.
Shonda Soulier 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by calgarc i signed in december of 2010... now i signed a 10 year contract and am locked for 5 years... so after 5 years i can sign with another label if i want, and after 10 years the contract is over and i get all the rights to my music back... now every track i want to sell is sold under that label, but i do have the option put out some tracks/remixes for free. and yes all decent labels will be selective on what they choose to release, you don't wanna release a bad track. for instance, my album was released last year no problem, but the EP i created with my friend just wasn't up to par. they told me i needed to refine the songs Right on, man. Good for you. So in another thread Shredder and I are talking about streaming services. What's your take on Spotify, Pandora, Slacker, etc.? How do artists look at these services? What are the benefits/drawbacks?
Ossie Pooley 07.09.2012	Firstly, well done on getting signed. Amazing post man. Really informative, cheers.
Stanley Topoleski 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by Lilac This brings up an interesting point. Is anyone here signed? And if they are, is it all tracks produced or just certain ones that they sign? I always thought that when you get signed, all your music belongs to the label but apparently not. My friend was signed earlier in the year and apparently they only pick up a few of his tracks if they're good enough i signed in december of 2010... now i signed a 10 year contract and am locked for 5 years... so after 5 years i can sign with another label if i want, and after 10 years the contract is over and i get all the rights to my music back... now every track i want to sell is sold under that label, but i do have the option put out some tracks/remixes for free. and yes all decent labels will be selective on what they choose to release, you don't wanna release a bad track. for instance, my album was released last year no problem, but the EP i created with my friend just wasn't up to par. they told me i needed to refine the songs
Ossie Pooley 07.09.2012	This brings up an interesting point. Is anyone here signed? And if they are, is it all tracks produced or just certain ones that they sign? I always thought that when you get signed, all your music belongs to the label but apparently not. My friend was signed earlier in the year and apparently they only pick up a few of his tracks if they're good enough
Stanley Topoleski 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by scamo Interesting stuff and a nice discussion. Is it really necessary to have a label for you to sell your tracks? I also noticed some tracks fall under different labels? What's up with that? Do labels sometimes fight for a track? I mean, if they did, that would be leverage to make more money, wouldn't it? scamo no its not necessary to have a record deal, but people treat you differently when you do. its like walking into a fancy restaurant with jeans and a ripped shirt as opposed to going there with a nice shirt and fancy pants... its all about who you are locked into... labels like zouk have a different sound then labels like magic island... you might work with an artist signed to zouk, while you on the other hand are signed to magic. some people have multiple deals. you very rarely see a rock band singed to a label that caters to house music... or a dubstep artist on a label that caters to classical music
Ara Tima 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by scamo Interesting stuff and a nice discussion. Is it really necessary to have a label for you to sell your tracks? I also noticed some tracks fall under different labels? What's up with that? Do labels sometimes fight for a track? I mean, if they did, that would be leverage to make more money, wouldn't it? scamo Well it depends, some musicians are absolutely shit house at the admin and paperwork involved with releasing stuff, a lot of people don't like that side of the business. A lot of the time you need a label for distribution at the very least, they have the contacts, unless you have a massive web presence. Though I'm sure it's changed a lot with Beatport, I'm more talking from traditional methods. That said a tune will sell shitloads more if it's on a respected label, lots of DJs still shop by label. Certain labels will be must-listens no matter what for most people. Tracks will be released on different labels because they were licensed to a certain label for a certain territory or under certain conditions. For example an artist in Australia might create a track, sign it to a smallish label for Australia only, then it sells well in Australia so they believe OK, I'll shop it around to some European labels.... Then they try some US labels... Next thing you know the same song has been released on 4 different labels in a year or two. This is less common in a digital age, but occurred regularly in the vinyl days. Sure labels can fight for a track, they could offer all sorts of different conditions/royalty splits/advances or maybe a label just has a better track record of looking after artists and getting results.
Rey Holubar 06.09.2012	Interesting stuff and a nice discussion. Is it really necessary to have a label for you to sell your tracks? I also noticed some tracks fall under different labels? What's up with that? Do labels sometimes fight for a track? I mean, if they did, that would be leverage to make more money, wouldn't it? scamo
Ara Tima 06.09.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c Spoken like a true business man... that is what will kill the whole bit about Dance music being independent and underground, which is kind of the foundation of why it exists.. The music is the reason the other guys put on a suit and tie and the internet should render old ways of marketing and distribution less important as you can easily market yourself if you have a couple of hours spare a week.. Necessary evil, especially outside of the EDM world where self promotion becomes a lot more restrictive. Small to mid range DJs have always made the bulk of their cash from touring. Like lots have said make good music, sell a little bit on the strength of the music actually being decent then as a result you should get more DJ bookings and be able to charge a higher price. Or sell your songs to adverts/TV shows. Synchronization is where all the money in music is being made these days. Big big big money.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 06.09.2012	Spoken like a true business man... that is what will kill the whole bit about Dance music being independent and underground, which is kind of the foundation of why it exists.. The music is the reason the other guys put on a suit and tie and the internet should render old ways of marketing and distribution less important as you can easily market yourself if you have a couple of hours spare a week.. It's not hard to get your choons on trackitdown you just need to make good music and send it in.. you network by playing in clubs and drop your tracks when national and international acts play, talk to them and give them your exclusives if they like your stuff. You can remix by sending producers your tracks once you have established your sound, your quality is on point and have a couple of releases out.
Erica Charvet 06.09.2012	Although I would in general agree that labels don't give enough to their artists, do keep in mind that they are doing literally everything of value - the marketing, the production, the distribution, the networking, the event planning... Like I said, the music production process itself is not inherently that valuable on it's own. Without the label it's nothing. After all, it's just a guy or a small group that does the production - why should they take the majority of the credit for what the labels (under a network of hundreds of people doing work) do? The money goes to where the value is - and (albeit sadly), it's not really the music itself that is valuable in our society.
Stanley Topoleski 06.09.2012	Originally Posted by synthet1c I disagree... It shouldn't have to be about "making it" It should be about getting your cut from your creation so you can afford to spend more time creating more and learning new skills. There are plenty of great producers who haven't "made it" selling bulk tracks but not getting a just financial reward. Most of us pay for music, but if it goes to paying off the owner of beatports Ferrari payments or the agents summer home and not the producers studio what is the point of paying... The only reason I buy tracks is I like to believe it helps support the producers.. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be true.. I might start buying tracks directly from the labels website, atleast most of that will get to the producer... true thats why i am selective on what labels i buy from and what labels i pirate from, but i always pay and go to the show
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 06.09.2012	Originally Posted by sss18734 This. How many artists do you believe are really "making it?" It takes a lot more than sitting on a laptop producing music to do so. Bluntly, the music itself isn't really THAT valuable - which is why 99.9% of the people that make music fail - they believe all they have to do is come with with a catchy tune and they'll make millions. Not true (with a few exceptions... lol). But the whole package? The music, the show, the promotion, the brand, the tour, the light show, the drinks and food sold AT the tour, etc etc? Now we're talking. Learn how to incorporate everything and THEN you will make money. Successful artists aren't just good at making music... They're good business people and know how to network well. I disagree... It shouldn't have to be about "making it" It should be about getting your cut from your creation so you can afford to spend more time creating more and learning new skills. There are plenty of great producers who haven't "made it" selling bulk tracks but not getting a just financial reward. Most of us pay for music, but if it goes to paying off the owner of beatports Ferrari payments or the agents summer home and not the producers studio what is the point of paying... The only reason I buy tracks is I like to believe it helps support the producers.. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be true.. I might start buying tracks directly from the labels website, atleast most of that will get to the producer...
Erica Charvet 06.09.2012	Originally Posted by squidot i don't even believe it's about "edm" or electronic music artists at all, really. i believe it's hard to make money as any sort of musician or artist, period. This. How many artists do you believe are really "making it?" It takes a lot more than sitting on a laptop producing music to do so. Bluntly, the music itself isn't really THAT valuable - which is why 99.9% of the people that make music fail - they believe all they have to do is come with with a catchy tune and they'll make millions. Not true (with a few exceptions... lol). But the whole package? The music, the show, the promotion, the brand, the tour, the light show, the drinks and food sold AT the tour, etc etc? Now we're talking. Learn how to incorporate everything and THEN you will make money. Successful artists aren't just good at making music... They're good business people and know how to network well.
Kandra Fagler 06.09.2012	edm artist these days dont exactly make money from record sales imo with all the piracy going on you'd just be happy your track gets out there and getting listened/played at clubs, theres not really much money there, however the more of your stuff gets played, the higher probability of you getting booked for gigs, more gigs = more money, and depending on how good your "EDM" productions are, you may either get good money or A LOT OF MONEY per gig so, more live performances/gig = more money, the productions are just really your weapons to get your name/rep up there just my two cents
Edwardo Rothenberger 06.09.2012	To believe that I used to pay
Frieda Swoboda 06.09.2012	First off, most people are not talented enough to make money. By talented I don't just mean musical talent. I mean everything to be an entertainer. The ability to see the market and see what will sell, the ability to foster a brand image, etc. The number of people who can do that and ALSO have musical talent is a small pool indeed. The number of people making a living from music is probably right where it should be. If you believe there are lot of talented musicians out there not making money, you have terrible taste in music. Being a competent musician and being an entertainer are two different things. One pays very well, one doesn't.
Shonda Soulier 06.09.2012	Skrillex has not made $44 million yet. He's worth about $3 million. That "couple hundred thousand" goes into a lot of different hands before it hits Sonny's bank account. That's still a ton of money, though. Guetta and Tiesto are worth about $50 million.
Kasi Marget 07.09.2012	Originally Posted by ToOntown . I feel like if Skrillex (or any of those guys I mentioned) continues as this pace for 5 years he'll have made enough to live a comfortable life without ever having to work again. Let's take the Skrillex example. He's been touring since Scary monsters and nice sprites release in october 2010. That makes 2 years more or less. 250/300 shows per year, ok so let's round it to 550 total. At the beginning of his fame, he charged way less than he does now. Promoters now have to pay "couple hundred thousand" (i'm quoting the guy himelf). Let's say that on average, he charged $80,000 per show since he got famous in 2010. 80,000 per show, 550 times, that gives us a $44 million total give or take. Of course, it's an approximation that does not take into account charges (plane, hotels) but most of the time the promoter has to take care of this. And this does not take in consideration the sales of tracks. Anyway, even if i'm 10 million away from reality, it's sure that the "big" guys on the scene already have way enough money to quit tomorrow morning and end their lives on a beach drinking pina colada. But they keep on doing it. Greed ? Passion ? A mix of both imo. PS : We took skrillex as example, what about guys like Guetta or Tiesto that have been on the scene for a decade or so ? PS 2 : As a DJ, you'll never be rich or famous. Produce, be good, be lucky and it's still not guaranteed. But this is worth giving a shot.
Celine Surico 07.09.2012	You make original tracks, original remixes and original mixes to showcase you. Those then give you access to DJ gigs where your income comes from. Note the word original, if that's missing you won't get many gigs, neither well-paying ones.
Shonda Soulier 06.09.2012	One can make a living. But what type of living? Unless you're Avicii, Deadmau5, Guetta, or (insert major touring producer) you won't make the big bucks. A friend of mine is in a band that is getting big around the jam band circuit. They are the most searched band on JamBase right now (FWIW). He is living comfortably but not to the point where he can retire comfortably when his flame burns out. I feel like if Skrillex (or any of those guys I mentioned) continues as this pace for 5 years he'll have made enough to live a comfortable life without ever having to work again.
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 06.09.2012	The argument is that beatport et al. would sell hundreds of thousands of tracks a week amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars even inspite of illegal downloads, and yet the artists are receiving only a fraction of the income. I always see my favourite artists when they tour at about $40 - $60 a show and go to around 3 festivals a year at between $170 - $240 each. I can't see a point of buying music anymore as the ones that get the money don't need it as they are on the world festival circuit... But that also accounts for the jump in festival tracks and decline in deeper groovin tracks which are the real gems that last through time.
Ossie Pooley 06.09.2012	+1 to all of the above. It's simply difficult to stand out from the crowd.
Cole Maroto 05.09.2012	i don't even believe it's about "edm" or electronic music artists at all, really. i believe it's hard to make money as any sort of musician or artist, period. people shouldn't really get their hopes up on making a lot of money or a long term living on creating what they enjoy. it's a very small percentage of folks that can have that kind of success in these fields. by all means, people should go for their dreams, but many end up bitter and hating on everything when they don't come into success as a musician. to them it's always someone else's fault: piracy, society, laptop djs, ipod djs, etc. these people never take a look at what they can do to improve their work or the process of getting it out there. it's easier mentally for them to place the blame on someone or something else. some of them are self indulgent grown children who believe they deserve the whole world because they have a keyboard and ableton. with that said, there are many very talented people who never made a huge name or a lot of money from music, but they still kept on truckin' because it's a part of them. they love it and endure. to them it's more important to leave something notable behind then to have a bunch of money. to me, that's the right way to look at being a musician. it's all about talent, luck, heart, dedication, and being at the right place at the right time.
Georgina Schatzman 05.09.2012	Speaking of making a living strictly from music sales, then yes it is very difficult and most unlikely that you can. People have been conditioned since a young age to download and pirate everything they can these days it seems, and that obviously includes music as well. Releasing music and running a label now a days is nothing more than a business card. Nic Fanciulli has said this numerous times as well. The only realistic way to make a living at this is to release music, get recognized and then get booked (even if the artist doesn't want to play live they realize they have to, and vice versa as well).
Stanley Topoleski 05.09.2012	everyone is a DJ and likes to make as they call them "beats" 95% of myspace consists of bands... its very hard.... hell 6 months after my first single was released on beatport/itunes i made 4 dollars and change. lets just say if a major label artist signed to EMI for example sells an album for 10 bucks on itunes they get 9 cents... if an indie label artist like me for example sell an album on itunes, i get $4.5 thats before the labels expense of mastering and releasing the album., which means i have to sell a decent amount of copies before i even get paid. piracy actually helps artists more then it hurts them... hell if it wasn't for the internet i wouldn't even know what edm was and who artists many European legends are...
Ethel Feigum 05.09.2012	Because everyone and their moms have tons of shitty productions up on soundcloud and the scene is saturated to the point that you need to throw cake or fly a spaceship to get noticed? On a more serious note, selling tracks is not how artists and songwriters make money. Putting out a track or an album isn't where the cash lies, it's with merchandise and ticket sales. Always has been, but has been made more so by digital single sales eating into album sales.

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Is it really so hard to make money being an EDM artist?