Alright guys, would like to know your idea about this innovative idea I am a Dutchmen, so don't sue my English.
During the development of our (= crew) electronic dance music I have been asked several times to offer a service to judge tracks and promos. Due the limited time that a human beiing have, I am not able to provide every single track of well-argued comments. On many online community
s people will post their tracks to get reply's / feedback from other community members. Some comments are constructive, some are not.
Back in Holland, there are loads of new talented producers. Also, internationally, there are many producers with quality tracks. In the past 4 years I have meet a lot of people. The innovative idea behind this concept is the well-argued feedback you'll receive as artist.
The idea will be: The community
will contain the following people:
Beginner producer
Advanced producer
Reviewers
Label owners
Producers will register an account on the community
, and can post their FULL tracks. Their tracks will not be visible for unregistered people. Within their thread, they receive feedback of our reviewers. The reviewers are people who finished a audio-related study, audio-engineer, studio owners and labels. Don't worry about the reviewers, they get their earnings as well. You will be sure that your track will be reviewed and commented as a producer.
The comments will be constructive, like suggestion of new synths, how to edit their climax step by step, how to mix their final track... Every comment will help the producer to make their track 'release-ready'.
The label PR people will pick tracks from the community
, if they believe the track will be a good one for their label.
What do you believe guys? |
03.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by ToOntown
A buddy of mine and I have done a few Skype sessions with kids we know that are away at college. They wanted some basic mixing and DJ tips. Because of lag and latency it was pretty difficult, but this is how all business will be done 10 years from now.
And yeah @PopeofDope - got your email and replied
Cheers! I will reply you tomorrow with more information. For now: the cast, community
design and technique have been finished. In the next few weeks I will ask people for bugfixing and suggestions to improve this concept. If you would like to receive a sneak preview of this idea, hit the private message button :-) |
Shonda Soulier
02.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
This is the true power of the connected world. Cutting through the spam of as one poster said, people who know nothing about music, and people who believe they know but they don't. I agree that the basic service should be free but you could charge for premium services such as a one to one Q&A sessions where producers can do a live video chat. I can't tell you how many times i've dreamt of getting to sit down with skilled producers and just pick their brains. This is the closest thing to making that a reality.
A buddy of mine and I have done a few Skype sessions with kids we know that are away at college. They wanted some basic mixing and DJ tips. Because of lag and latency it was pretty difficult, but this is how all business will be done 10 years from now.
And yeah @PopeofDope - got your email and replied |
29.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by ToOntown
Stack Overflow is a computer programming question and answer site. Users ask and answer questions and earn reputation points for their participation. It's kind of like Digg or Yahoo Answers in that regard.
Thanks for the explanation. Have you received my email btw? :-) |
Shonda Soulier
27.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by PopeofDope
What exactly do you mean with the stackoverflow model?
Stack Overflow is a computer programming question and answer site. Users ask and answer questions and earn reputation points for their participation. It's kind of like Digg or Yahoo Answers in that regard. |
27.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
Oh the 'scratch-your-back with fake-critique-so-I-get-customers' approach. Hmm. Doubt that will really help any aspiring EDM producers...
I would still recommend to look at the stackoverflow model. I.e. suggest a community
in their Area51 section to see how it flies.
What exactly do you mean with the stackoverflow model? |
27.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by RockingClub
+One more reason why reviewers could also be interested in some system like this is the following:
If a reviewer working as a mixing/mastering engineer has helped one person several times and the criticism has always been very constructive and the person that was helped really feels to be on the same wave length with the reviewer he/she might consider handing over the reviewed or some future tracks to the reviewer for mixing/mastering purposes. So both would have benefitted from this in the end.
Good one, added to my feature list. Thanks!
Originally Posted by ksandvik
You need revenue from someone to pay for the reviewers doing their work. Ads? Doubt you get any revenue, clients, only option.
Again, please do not worry about the earnings. I got a big network of advertisers, so earnings won't be a problem at all! |
Celine Surico
24.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by RockingClub
That's not what I meant. My approach would be better summarised as 'give-reasonable-and-substantiated-criticism-leading-to-an-undoubtedly-better-result-so-that-the-producer-recognizes-you-really-know-what-you're-talking-about-and-might-see-it-as-a-good-investment-to-give-his-track-to-you-to-get-it-perfectly-mixed/mastered'
Yes, in an ideal world it should happen. In reality it's scratching back marketing. If there's no material gain, then the feedback would be more realistic. Hence a social-driven review system me believes would work better. |
Sylvia Greener
14.09.2012 | PMed as well |
12.09.2012 | End of september we will open the platform for beta testers, please send me your details by pm kamazii! |
Abel Rogowski
11.09.2012 | hey nice. its surely is innovative. hope to be a part of this if possible |
11.09.2012 | We are seeking for beta testers, feel free to shoot me an private message! |
03.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by ToOntown
A buddy of mine and I have done a few Skype sessions with kids we know that are away at college. They wanted some basic mixing and DJ tips. Because of lag and latency it was pretty difficult, but this is how all business will be done 10 years from now.
And yeah @PopeofDope - got your email and replied
Cheers! I will reply you tomorrow with more information. For now: the cast, community
design and technique have been finished. In the next few weeks I will ask people for bugfixing and suggestions to improve this concept. If you would like to receive a sneak preview of this idea, hit the private message button :-) |
Shonda Soulier
02.08.2012 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
This is the true power of the connected world. Cutting through the spam of as one poster said, people who know nothing about music, and people who believe they know but they don't. I agree that the basic service should be free but you could charge for premium services such as a one to one Q&A sessions where producers can do a live video chat. I can't tell you how many times i've dreamt of getting to sit down with skilled producers and just pick their brains. This is the closest thing to making that a reality.
A buddy of mine and I have done a few Skype sessions with kids we know that are away at college. They wanted some basic mixing and DJ tips. Because of lag and latency it was pretty difficult, but this is how all business will be done 10 years from now.
And yeah @PopeofDope - got your email and replied |
01.08.2012 | rdej47 - nice to read your reply. The design and member panel has been finished today. Will not take that long to put the beta version online! :-) |
Johnsie Kingrea
30.07.2012 | This is the true power of the connected world. Cutting through the spam of as one poster said, people who know nothing about music, and people who believe they know but they don't. I agree that the basic service should be free but you could charge for premium services such as a one to one Q&A sessions where producers can do a live video chat. I can't tell you how many times i've dreamt of getting to sit down with skilled producers and just pick their brains. This is the closest thing to making that a reality. |
29.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by ToOntown
Stack Overflow is a computer programming question and answer site. Users ask and answer questions and earn reputation points for their participation. It's kind of like Digg or Yahoo Answers in that regard.
Thanks for the explanation. Have you received my email btw? :-) |
Shonda Soulier
27.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by PopeofDope
What exactly do you mean with the stackoverflow model?
Stack Overflow is a computer programming question and answer site. Users ask and answer questions and earn reputation points for their participation. It's kind of like Digg or Yahoo Answers in that regard. |
27.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
Oh the 'scratch-your-back with fake-critique-so-I-get-customers' approach. Hmm. Doubt that will really help any aspiring EDM producers...
I would still recommend to look at the stackoverflow model. I.e. suggest a community
in their Area51 section to see how it flies.
What exactly do you mean with the stackoverflow model? |
27.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by RockingClub
+One more reason why reviewers could also be interested in some system like this is the following:
If a reviewer working as a mixing/mastering engineer has helped one person several times and the criticism has always been very constructive and the person that was helped really feels to be on the same wave length with the reviewer he/she might consider handing over the reviewed or some future tracks to the reviewer for mixing/mastering purposes. So both would have benefitted from this in the end.
Good one, added to my feature list. Thanks!
Originally Posted by ksandvik
You need revenue from someone to pay for the reviewers doing their work. Ads? Doubt you get any revenue, clients, only option.
Again, please do not worry about the earnings. I got a big network of advertisers, so earnings won't be a problem at all! |
Celine Surico
24.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by RockingClub
That's not what I meant. My approach would be better summarised as 'give-reasonable-and-substantiated-criticism-leading-to-an-undoubtedly-better-result-so-that-the-producer-recognizes-you-really-know-what-you're-talking-about-and-might-see-it-as-a-good-investment-to-give-his-track-to-you-to-get-it-perfectly-mixed/mastered'
Yes, in an ideal world it should happen. In reality it's scratching back marketing. If there's no material gain, then the feedback would be more realistic. Hence a social-driven review system me believes would work better. |
Sylvia Greener
24.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
Oh the 'scratch-your-back with fake-critique-so-I-get-customers' approach. Hmm. Doubt that will really help any aspiring EDM producers...
That's not what I meant. My approach would be better summarised as 'give-reasonable-and-substantiated-criticism-leading-to-an-undoubtedly-better-result-so-that-the-producer-recognizes-you-really-know-what-you're-talking-about-and-might-see-it-as-a-good-investment-to-give-his-track-to-you-to-get-it-perfectly-mixed/mastered' |
Celine Surico
24.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by RockingClub
+One more reason why reviewers could also be interested in some system like this is the following:
If a reviewer working as a mixing/mastering engineer has helped one person several times and the criticism has always been very constructive and the person that was helped really feels to be on the same wave length with the reviewer he/she might consider handing over the reviewed or some future tracks to the reviewer for mixing/mastering purposes. So both would have benefitted from this in the end.
Oh the 'scratch-your-back with fake-critique-so-I-get-customers' approach. Hmm. Doubt that will really help any aspiring EDM producers...
I would still recommend to look at the stackoverflow model. I.e. suggest a community
in their Area51 section to see how it flies. |
Celine Surico
24.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by PopeofDope
Where do you read about the part that bedroom producers should pay to receive feedback on their track? This service will be free for some now - maybe we will add some premium features in the future. Also, we do know how to place the ads on the right places. DJ-Lounge has been running quiet a long time - and generated loads of clicks and pageviews! :-)
Added!
The feedback system is working like that. People will receive 'ranks' and can earn points to archieve an amount of reputation. More information about the rating system will be added soon.
You need revenue from someone to pay for the reviewers doing their work. Ads? Doubt you get any revenue, clients, only option. |
Sylvia Greener
25.07.2012 | +One more reason why reviewers could also be interested in some system like this is the following:
If a reviewer working as a mixing/mastering engineer has helped one person several times and the criticism has always been very constructive and the person that was helped really feels to be on the same wave length with the reviewer he/she might consider handing over the reviewed or some future tracks to the reviewer for mixing/mastering purposes. So both would have benefitted from this in the end. |
25.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
I'm also curious how this is really funded as most bedroom producers don't exactly want to pay much or anything for such a service. Ads? Ads won't work either as this is one-to-one eye ball operation, ads require thousands of eye balls per page.
Where do you read about the part that bedroom producers should pay to receive feedback on their track? This service will be free for some now - maybe we will add some premium features in the future. Also, we do know how to place the ads on the right places. DJ-Lounge has been running quiet a long time - and generated loads of clicks and pageviews! :-)
Originally Posted by rdale
I really like the idea of rating what other people believe of a reviewers opinion so that community members are socially awarded the stars or badges or what not. Seems like trophies motivate people even when they are not real.
Added!
Originally Posted by ksandvik
As I said, only the ones that are interested in feedback for their track will look at the page so the only high-frequency eyeball page will be the entry web page and some of the registration, info/about ones and so on. Me believes this is not a viable business model, but it's cheap to start web enterprises and foil in case it does not work out.
You should indeed try to go for a community-centric model, so the more someone gives good feedback, their reputation goes up. So it becomes like an online game. See stackoverflow.com as an example how this works in the programmer world.
The feedback system is working like that. People will receive 'ranks' and can earn points to archieve an amount of reputation. More information about the rating system will be added soon. |
Celine Surico
23.07.2012 | As I said, only the ones that are interested in feedback for their track will look at the page so the only high-frequency eyeball page will be the entry web page and some of the registration, info/about ones and so on. Me believes this is not a viable business model, but it's cheap to start web enterprises and foil in case it does not work out.
You should indeed try to go for a community-centric model, so the more someone gives good feedback, their reputation goes up. So it becomes like an online game. See stackoverflow.com as an example how this works in the programmer world. |
Freida Leash
23.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by ksandvik
I'm also curious how this is really funded as most bedroom producers don't exactly want to pay much or anything for such a service. Ads? Ads won't work either as this is one-to-one eye ball operation, ads require thousands of eye balls per page.
I believe directly seeking advertisers can work as music stores, gear manufacturers would have truly a direct line to their consumer. I'm not likely to click on an ad that is randomly thrown at me, but the ads here get a click thru about 3 times a week depending.
I really like the idea of rating what other people believe of a reviewers opinion so that community members are socially awarded the stars or badges or what not. Seems like trophies motivate people even when they are not real. |
Celine Surico
23.07.2012 | I'm also curious how this is really funded as most bedroom producers don't exactly want to pay much or anything for such a service. Ads? Ads won't work either as this is one-to-one eye ball operation, ads require thousands of eye balls per page. |
23.07.2012 |
Originally Posted by KryticalH!T
I believe that's an awesome idea. It would be a very good opportunity for everyone involved, really.
Thanks. I agree with you about this oppurtunity we are able to offer to all the producers.
Originally Posted by Da3dalus
Id love to get criticism and help from advanced producers
First song I made in fruity loops was some Hardstyle too
But It could use some work (mastering)
Its a very good idea and would keep people liek myself motivated because starting off producing by yourself is a very hard and daunting task, but thats not to say I dont enjoy it.
Hehe FL is one of the most used producer programs. Producing these days is very hard, agree with that. There are so many producers today - so we would like to give everyone the option to comment their track by professionals, so they can fix those recommendations.
Originally Posted by AllDay
Hardest thing to find is good feedback, there are the 3 types. Those that know nothing about music, those that believe they everything but know nothing, and those that do actually know something. This last one is hard to find.
Don't worry about good music reviews. We have been working more than 4 years with people in the electronic dance scene. Back in Holland there are several study's who have been completed by our crew to judge the tracks fairly. Also, the approximated labels, studio owners and other people are invited to the community
and will be active on the community
as well. (They have signed a contract )
Originally Posted by Hackysac
sounds cool
Thanks!
Originally Posted by juanrico01
I believe that's an awesome idea.
Thank you.
Originally Posted by rdale
I find when I give constructive input, people are still defensive... it is their baby. I know in my life where I'm defensive too, sometimes to argumentative amounts and am willing to accept the discussion, but that takes a chunk of acceptance of the critique and credibility of the person doing the critique. There are tracks on Soundcloud that I will still play, but I'm going to work it hard to make it groove, most aren't are really willing to hear all that is missed is make the snare hold it together or fill in the groove with the hi's.
The key is to finding people that really want to utilize this information. I hear plenty of my mistakes, would love for some one to point out weak points, and be able to build. Most people believe they are there already at the next step, a step or three below, each step along the building process. I guess it call it thickskinnedproducer.com
Of course it's their baby, but one of the main rules of the community
will be: accept the feedback, don't defend your own track and don't sue the reviewers. You can ask everything you don't understand what the reviewer is writing about, but don't sue him. Discussions are ok, but getting defensive like: 'screw you, the synths of this track are ok...' - yeah, there is a nice ban button for this one.
Hehe, the part of the thick skin, I really agree. The attitude should be fine of every community member, if not: byebye.
Originally Posted by TCMuc
Generally sounds like a very good idea.
What I'm really curious about is how you want to pay/compensate the reviewers for their efforts...
Anyway, there are some more ideas I'd like to share:
It would be great to not only get reviews from the reviewers, but also from advanced producers/professionals. Audio-engineers may be great to judge the (technical) quality of tracks, but I believe it's only people who have been doing this themselves for a long time that can tell you those little tricks of the trade that you don't learn in any university but aquire only through years of hands-on experience.
I don't know if you have planned something like this, but you may want to introduce some kind of rating system for the tracks if you want the platform to be interesting for A&Rs/label owners. Typically those people have a huge pile of demo tracks to listen to already, so they probably won't be willing to dig through many different tracks to discover the rare hidden gems. If there was some pre-selection, e.g. by the reviewers rating the tracks they listen to, the platform would become much more interesting for label owners, as the tracks that are not ready for release would already have been sorted out.
Don't worry about the compensation, the reviewers will earn their part of effort. (some of them are offering their mastering course, some of them are advertising (selling ads), and so on...)
First idea: this was already part of the concept. Other producers are free to share their comments about a track, as long as the feedback is constructive.
The second idea: the community
software will be the same as DJTechTools. There is a build-in rating system to accomplish this idea. Already added to the feature list, but thanks for sharing.
Originally Posted by Tommi Bass
I'm on VIP promo lists.
For example this month I have reviewed 31 e.ps. (Deep House/Tech/Minimal)
I work for several labels as Mastering Engineer. (I specialise in Quality Electronic Music)
Thanks for reaching me out. Could you send me an email with more information about yourself to martijn(at)dj-lounge(dot)com, maybe we can offer something to each other.
Originally Posted by ToOntown
How will you make money?
I have a few ideas but I would like to hear how you'd monetize a service like this.
But I agree with everyone--this is an outstanding idea.
The track review community
will be a part of the DJ-Lounge concept. So the community
won't be the only source of earnings. Monetizing this community
(feedback, reviews) will be different for each reviewer. We have agreements with artists and label owners (we publish their new release on the frontpage, in exchange for a review on the community
for example.)
Feel free to share your suggestions! |
23.07.2012 | Hey guys, I will reply every comment on this thread one by one. |
Shonda Soulier
24.07.2012 | How will you make money?
I have a few ideas but I would like to hear how you'd monetize a service like this.
But I agree with everyone--this is an outstanding idea. |
Germaine Bernadin
23.07.2012 | I'm on VIP promo lists.
For example this month I have reviewed 31 e.ps. (Deep House/Tech/Minimal)
I work for several labels as Mastering Engineer. (I specialise in Quality Electronic Music) |
Nikole Resende
23.07.2012 | Generally sounds like a very good idea.
What I'm really curious about is how you want to pay/compensate the reviewers for their efforts...
Anyway, there are some more ideas I'd like to share:
It would be great to not only get reviews from the reviewers, but also from advanced producers/professionals. Audio-engineers may be great to judge the (technical) quality of tracks, but I believe it's only people who have been doing this themselves for a long time that can tell you those little tricks of the trade that you don't learn in any university but aquire only through years of hands-on experience.
I don't know if you have planned something like this, but you may want to introduce some kind of rating system for the tracks if you want the platform to be interesting for A&Rs/label owners. Typically those people have a huge pile of demo tracks to listen to already, so they probably won't be willing to dig through many different tracks to discover the rare hidden gems. If there was some pre-selection, e.g. by the reviewers rating the tracks they listen to, the platform would become much more interesting for label owners, as the tracks that are not ready for release would already have been sorted out. |
Freida Leash
23.07.2012 | I find when I give constructive input, people are still defensive... it is their baby. I know in my life where I'm defensive too, sometimes to argumentative amounts and am willing to accept the discussion, but that takes a chunk of acceptance of the critique and credibility of the person doing the critique. There are tracks on Soundcloud that I will still play, but I'm going to work it hard to make it groove, most aren't are really willing to hear all that is missed is make the snare hold it together or fill in the groove with the hi's.
The key is to finding people that really want to utilize this information. I hear plenty of my mistakes, would love for some one to point out weak points, and be able to build. Most people believe they are there already at the next step, a step or three below, each step along the building process. I guess it call it thickskinnedproducer.com |
Rocco Shuford
23.07.2012 | I believe that's an awesome idea. |
Alona Durfee
23.07.2012 | sounds cool |
Tera Baragan
23.07.2012 | Hardest thing to find is good feedback, there are the 3 types. Those that know nothing about music, those that believe they everything but know nothing, and those that do actually know something. This last one is hard to find. |
Eleanore Hartmeyer
22.07.2012 | Id love to get criticism and help from advanced producers
First song I made in fruity loops was some Hardstyle too
But It could use some work (mastering)
Its a very good idea and would keep people liek myself motivated because starting off producing by yourself is a very hard and daunting task, but thats not to say I dont enjoy it. |
Celina Crusey
22.07.2012 | I believe that's an awesome idea. It would be a very good opportunity for everyone involved, really. |
