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Syncing ableton and traktor over midi

Home :: General Discussion :: Syncing ableton and traktor over midiReply

Syncing ableton and traktor over midi Posted on: 24.08.2012 by Kristen Dennen Hi. I'm trying to sync Ableton and Tractor over internal midi, following the instructions here: Traktor works fine, but the CPU usage in Ableton spikes way up above 50 when I turn on external midi, and I get choppy playback. Sometimes, the midi fluctuates pretty wildly. It's fine when not using external midi. Any suggestions?
Rolanda Clodfelder 24.08.2012	Originally Posted by jaredweiss Thanks for the article by the way. It seems interesting and i'll give it a read. Do you know how to set up Ableton as a MIDI sync out? I'm interested to try that. I have noticed that within a set I need to sometimes adjust the sync delay within Ableton which is a pain to do. Pretty easy, I just tried this with Traktor 2 for the first time BTW and its bucketloads more stable than when I previously tried with Traktor Pro only .01 .02 fluctuation on the clock at worst. All you need to do is First set up the IAC device as Online in Audio/Midi Prefs - rename if you want. Open Ableton and go to midi port prefs, and look for "output Internal IAC Bus 1" set Sync "On" Track and remote can stay off. Midi Clock Type as "Song". We'll come back to Midi Clock Sync Delay. Now open Traktor and open the Master clock area, Set it to EXT, Click Master Now press Enable Metronome in Traktor and Ableton ... Press play in Ableton, traktor's Clock should start moving, after about 10 seconds the clock should stabilize properly but your two Metronomes are probably wayy off, to correct this do the following. Go to the "Midi Clock Sync Delay" area in Ableton and adjust till they are synced..I found -18 ms Worked properly for me. Turn off the Metronomes. Now try syncing some tracks to Ableton in Traktor and watch the Magic... This all comes in most useful if you are using Jack or Soundflower to route Traktor Decks into Ableton for sampling as all your recorded loops will be synced properly, its not perfect, if you change tempos there is still a lag between traktor changing tempo anything from 5-20 seconds where you will see Traktor "riding the pitch faders" depending on how much variaton you are making. But the cool things is the 2 applications WILL stay perfectly in sync if you are playing a constant tempo gig no probs which is a big deal for recording samples or routing decks into Ableton or simply playing samples from Ableton that will actually stay in time. Give it a try ... personally I dont bother, mainly becuase I couldnt be arsed switching screens between two apps on a single screen .. if I had a dual screen setup I'd probably believe differently.
Kristen Dennen 24.08.2012	Originally Posted by jaredweiss deevey, I've never had an issue running Ableton as a slave with Traktor as the master. And I've also run JackRouter as a virtual soundcard to connect two programs and even then both programs acted normally. As long as its configured correctly, with his drusha's current setup there shouldn't be a problem. Either way, I believe its more reliable to run Traktor to Ableton for the MIDI clock. Traktor has a built in Virtual Output that is designed to do tasks exactly like this. I'm not sure if Ableton has this so I can't definitively say that Traktor is better, but in my experience and with my knowledge of the two programs, Traktor is more reliable. The fact that the processor is jumping past 50% definitely makes it seem like a software problem however. There is some kind of fault happening in the programs you're running. If you take a look in the Activity Monitor is it Ableton thats using up all this power or Traktor or maybe even an Audio program? Thanks, I'll check out what's going on in the activity monitor. I am actually using Traktor's virtual output to sync.
Kristen Dennen 24.08.2012	Thanks for the advice. My sound card is described here: http://community .djranking s.com/showthr...068#post522068 I'm using two of the outputs for Ableton and two for traktor, but I have the same issues when I reserve the sound card for Traktor and use my macbook audio out for Ableton. Originally Posted by deevey Ableton does not work very well at all as a Midi slave, however it works "reasonably" well the other way around to send the Master Tempo to Traktor instead. Thanks, I'll try this. Originally Posted by deevey It tends to be more reliable to use a knob to control your Ableton Tempo, and nudge buttons for when they go out of sync (which they do). In addition to midi sync, or instead of it? So what's the typical method of using both traktor and Ableton? Which is the master and which is the slave? Or do people just sync them up independently?
Kristen Dennen 24.08.2012	Hi. I'm trying to sync Ableton and Tractor over internal midi, following the instructions here: Traktor works fine, but the CPU usage in Ableton spikes way up above 50 when I turn on external midi, and I get choppy playback. Sometimes, the midi fluctuates pretty wildly. It's fine when not using external midi. Any suggestions?
Jeannine Drobney 18.09.2012	This is amaing. OMG!!!!!!!!! Talk about super live remix festival! I love you for posting this. My traktor and ableton do form like voltron!!!!!
Rolanda Clodfelder 24.08.2012	Originally Posted by jaredweiss Thanks for the article by the way. It seems interesting and i'll give it a read. Do you know how to set up Ableton as a MIDI sync out? I'm interested to try that. I have noticed that within a set I need to sometimes adjust the sync delay within Ableton which is a pain to do. Pretty easy, I just tried this with Traktor 2 for the first time BTW and its bucketloads more stable than when I previously tried with Traktor Pro only .01 .02 fluctuation on the clock at worst. All you need to do is First set up the IAC device as Online in Audio/Midi Prefs - rename if you want. Open Ableton and go to midi port prefs, and look for "output Internal IAC Bus 1" set Sync "On" Track and remote can stay off. Midi Clock Type as "Song". We'll come back to Midi Clock Sync Delay. Now open Traktor and open the Master clock area, Set it to EXT, Click Master Now press Enable Metronome in Traktor and Ableton ... Press play in Ableton, traktor's Clock should start moving, after about 10 seconds the clock should stabilize properly but your two Metronomes are probably wayy off, to correct this do the following. Go to the "Midi Clock Sync Delay" area in Ableton and adjust till they are synced..I found -18 ms Worked properly for me. Turn off the Metronomes. Now try syncing some tracks to Ableton in Traktor and watch the Magic... This all comes in most useful if you are using Jack or Soundflower to route Traktor Decks into Ableton for sampling as all your recorded loops will be synced properly, its not perfect, if you change tempos there is still a lag between traktor changing tempo anything from 5-20 seconds where you will see Traktor "riding the pitch faders" depending on how much variaton you are making. But the cool things is the 2 applications WILL stay perfectly in sync if you are playing a constant tempo gig no probs which is a big deal for recording samples or routing decks into Ableton or simply playing samples from Ableton that will actually stay in time. Give it a try ... personally I dont bother, mainly becuase I couldnt be arsed switching screens between two apps on a single screen .. if I had a dual screen setup I'd probably believe differently.
Brooke Cary 24.08.2012	That may work. If you have one try it out.
Kristen Dennen 24.08.2012	I'm fairly certain it's the sound card. When I disable audio out the Ableton clock snaps perfectly to the traktor midi clock. When I switch to my usb interface or my computer's audio out the midi starts fluctuating wildly; this is even without any plug-ins enabled. So basically I need to test the system with a pro grade audio i/o. Would a lexicon lambda work? Or do I need something better?
Brooke Cary 24.08.2012	I believe its the soundcard too. I just don't get why its happening because of the MIDI sync. This is an interesting problem. Thanks for the article by the way. It seems interesting and i'll give it a read. Do you know how to set up Ableton as a MIDI sync out? I'm interested to try that. I have noticed that within a set I need to sometimes adjust the sync delay within Ableton which is a pain to do.
Rolanda Clodfelder 24.08.2012	deevey, I've never had an issue running Ableton as a slave with Traktor as the master. And I've also run JackRouter as a virtual soundcard to connect two programs and even then both programs acted normally. As long as its configured correctly, with his drusha's current setup there shouldn't be a problem. Either way, I believe its more reliable to run Traktor to Ableton for the MIDI clock. Traktor has a built in Virtual Output that is designed to do tasks exactly like this. I'm not sure if Ableton has this so I can't definitively say that Traktor is better, but in my experience and with my knowledge of the two programs, Traktor is more reliable. Midi Drift from external sources is one of Abletons known issues.... Worth a read...https://community .ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=98876 1. Live as Master Sync Output is stable! With a good Midi interface Live (or any other Midi Master on the same PC) is capable of keeping Midi Sync stable, with drifts smaller than 0.10 BPM as long as (CPU) load remains below 80%. It is still useable until around 90% and then quickly drifts down to lower bpm because it cannot upkeep the constant Midi stream. Eventhough tempo might drop Midi Sync should still be stable with external synced gear though, even if Live's CPU meter increases well over 100%. Anyone experiencing problems with Live as Master Output Midi Sync most likely suffers from bad drivers, a bad Midi interface, short load spikes originating from some other problem source or you saturate Midi bandwidth by sending too much additional Midi data along the line. Also keep in mind that if you want to sync two different machines that each comes with other Audio and Midi Latencies. You need to use Sync Delay in order to get them into Sync and most of the times it can never be perfect. Which leads us to the next point... 2. Live as Slave Sync Input is only useable with restrictions! When Live is running as Slave to another Midi Sync Master it does some very rough rounding on the incoming Midi Sync signal/values. Live rounds any Sync value to full BPM! Value below x.5 are rounded down to the next full digit, values above x.5 are rounded up. I.e. 127.4 BPM is rounded down to 127.00 BPM, 127.5 BPM is rounded up to 128.00 BPM. Whatever strange algorithm is used for that rounding it has two major drawbacks. The above was written for Live 7, Live 8 is a little better but the fluctuation still was way too significant (.5 to make it a reasonable option. In essence Live should be fine so long as your values are whole numbers, if your tempo drifts you are screwed. This pretty much my experience with it as well, Trakor would follow Abletons midi clock pretty well within about .02 bpm value. But Ableton following traktor was around the .5 - 2.5 bpm mark, certainly not good enough for beat matching or looping and was much rougher and much slower to update the value to Ableton as a slave. Fixing the master clock to a set BPM value on both Apps, and nudge syncing one or both together is way more reliable and stays in sync better than master/slaving midi. IMHO of course - there's a thread on this in the Ableton section anyhow. Now back to your 50% Ableton load . When you turn up the latency on both applications, do you still have the CPU spike and Audio issues, if so, it could be the soundcard causing the problem? If you make Ableton the master clock - do you still have the Problem ? If you do not use Midi Clock Sync, and regular settings is there any issues whatsoever ?
Kristen Dennen 24.08.2012	Originally Posted by jaredweiss deevey, I've never had an issue running Ableton as a slave with Traktor as the master. And I've also run JackRouter as a virtual soundcard to connect two programs and even then both programs acted normally. As long as its configured correctly, with his drusha's current setup there shouldn't be a problem. Either way, I believe its more reliable to run Traktor to Ableton for the MIDI clock. Traktor has a built in Virtual Output that is designed to do tasks exactly like this. I'm not sure if Ableton has this so I can't definitively say that Traktor is better, but in my experience and with my knowledge of the two programs, Traktor is more reliable. The fact that the processor is jumping past 50% definitely makes it seem like a software problem however. There is some kind of fault happening in the programs you're running. If you take a look in the Activity Monitor is it Ableton thats using up all this power or Traktor or maybe even an Audio program? Thanks, I'll check out what's going on in the activity monitor. I am actually using Traktor's virtual output to sync.
Kristen Dennen 24.08.2012	Thanks for the advice. My sound card is described here: http://community .djranking s.com/showthr...068#post522068 I'm using two of the outputs for Ableton and two for traktor, but I have the same issues when I reserve the sound card for Traktor and use my macbook audio out for Ableton. Originally Posted by deevey Ableton does not work very well at all as a Midi slave, however it works "reasonably" well the other way around to send the Master Tempo to Traktor instead. Thanks, I'll try this. Originally Posted by deevey It tends to be more reliable to use a knob to control your Ableton Tempo, and nudge buttons for when they go out of sync (which they do). In addition to midi sync, or instead of it? So what's the typical method of using both traktor and Ableton? Which is the master and which is the slave? Or do people just sync them up independently?
Brooke Cary 24.08.2012	deevey, I've never had an issue running Ableton as a slave with Traktor as the master. And I've also run JackRouter as a virtual soundcard to connect two programs and even then both programs acted normally. As long as its configured correctly, with his drusha's current setup there shouldn't be a problem. Either way, I believe its more reliable to run Traktor to Ableton for the MIDI clock. Traktor has a built in Virtual Output that is designed to do tasks exactly like this. I'm not sure if Ableton has this so I can't definitively say that Traktor is better, but in my experience and with my knowledge of the two programs, Traktor is more reliable. The fact that the processor is jumping past 50% definitely makes it seem like a software problem however. There is some kind of fault happening in the programs you're running. If you take a look in the Activity Monitor is it Ableton thats using up all this power or Traktor or maybe even an Audio program?
Rolanda Clodfelder 24.08.2012	Ableton does not work very well at all as a Midi slave, however it works "reasonably" well the other way around to send the Master Tempo to Traktor instead. It tends to be more reliable to use a knob to control your Ableton Tempo, and nudge buttons for when they go out of sync (which they do). What soundcard are you using and latency settings .. I've only ever tried running Traktors Channels into Ableton with Soundflower, so only one piece of software is using the physical sound card. Are you sharing the soundcard output between the two softwares by any chance? If so, that might be the issue.
Brooke Cary 24.08.2012	Hmm... Ok. Are you running anything else (including plugins in Ableton)? Are both softwares legitimate copies?
Kristen Dennen 24.08.2012	Macbook pro 15, core 2 duo 2.4, 8gb ram, hybrid ssd.
Brooke Cary 24.08.2012	What kind of computer are you using?

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