Considering moving back to Controllers (GAH??!?!?!!?!?)
Considering moving back to Controllers (GAH??!?!?!!?!?) Posted on: 29.10.2012 by Dorie Scelzo For those who don't know, a short history. I started on Vinyl. Moved to SSL. Sold it. Moved to CDJ-200s + Vinyl. Moved to Final Scratch 2. Sold FS2. Sold CDJs, moved back to SSL (vinyl). Sold everything, Moved to Ableton + VCM-600. Sold everything, Moved to Traktor Pro (X1s + xone:62). Incorporated Maschine (X1 + Traktor/Maschine + xone:62). Sold everything (except Maschine), moved back to SSL (1200s + vestax). I went back to SSL because I realized that I had more fun that way, and the all-controller sync'd setup just wasn't as much fun. I'd play out whenever the opportunity came up (mostly small parties), but I never practiced | |
| Dorie Scelzo 05.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bassline Brine
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| Leeanna Ayla 01.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Dorie Scelzo 05.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by Bassline Brine
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| Random X 05.11.2012 | Glad to see the SX is working out for you, Mostapha! Had the same thing going on in my old apartment, these these I do have the space, still need to by the turntables. Thing is, after spinning on controllers and my current setup, I know I want to go back to vinyl and the controller some day, though the urge is not _that_ big. |
| Audrey Pinda 04.11.2012 | Yarg. I'm tempted, I really am. I have the space, and love using SSL. I also like having access to my turntables, and never plan on selling them unless I upgrade to some nicer ones. The DDJ-SX doesn't have time-code vinyl control yet for the software does it? Even with the potential of hooking up an SL box of sorts into the inputs? (Which I know, adds to the expense, but I already have one). Not sure if you've tried it, or what the possibilities for that may be. I read somewhere that the platters might be able to control in SSL, but I don't know if that makes a lot of the other features void, or how that would work. I had previously emailed Serato about this particular question, and they kind of beat around the bush with me on it. I'd love to have access to a Pioneer style mixer to get used to, and having the controller to bring around would be handy in a lot of situations where bringing the turntables and everything just isn't practical. If this did something like the S4, and allowed for time code control if you hooked up your turntables? I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I like SSL honestly, and I don't want to go through gridding and all that with a Traktor based controller. Good to hear it's really solid though, the thing really is sexy. Let me know if you hear anything about time-code support as well... I'd probably pick one up as soon as I could if so. |
| Dorie Scelzo 04.11.2012 | So, I broke the cardinal rule of new gear and spun with it at a house party on Friday. No hiccups. No issues. Everything just kind of worked. And it felt like pioneer the whole time. No problems with the software either. I realized a couple hours in that I forgot to plug in my phone as a backup……but we didn't need it. There are some cool features of the thing, but if you want to see effects/sampler/etc. while using 4 decks, you better not need the mix aides, because they don't all fit on the screen. The biggest issue I see is that the phono preamps are on channels 1 & 2, which is also the decks shown in the 2-deck view, meaning that spinning with vinyl and software decks available wastes a lot of screen real estate. There might be a way to show only 3 & 4, but I haven't played with it enough to find it. I'll be happier when I have enough space to run my vinyl decks and my monitors, but for the apartment, stashing it next to the desk and bringing it out when I want to spin seems like it's going to work just fine. And I still believe that 4 decks is overkill, though saved loops, minimal tracks, and the dual deck controls for the platters seems like it might open up some interesting stuff. I'm sure people who don't believe mashups are stupid will like it too. |
| Judi Sissel 01.11.2012 | Hope to hear some great stuff out of it. Enjoy it! |
| Dorie Scelzo 01.11.2012 | Yeah…that never made sense to me. If the channels aren't going to be the exact same arrangement on the screen and the mixer, I prefer for the numbers to make sense on the mixer. FWIW, this is the kind of space I'm working with: Unfortunately, there's too much stuff on that bookshelf to replace it with an expedit, especially when you consider that there's only about 2' of clearance to the bed and vinyl/speaker storage. I've already made my peace with doing everything music related in headphones for the time being. This works. $1300 ish with Pro Coverage is a bit steep for a controller, but it was doable. And it seems to work. I do miss my turntables (like I knew I would), but the hassle of running SDJ and SSL together will get me back to buying vinyl occasionally, and for the first time in a while, I can spin at home without taking over the entire living room, which my girlfriend and our roommate would not stand for. |
| Leeanna Ayla 01.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Dorie Scelzo 01.11.2012 | After actually spinning a "set" (1 hr) with it instead of just checking to make sure it works……I like the interface about like SSL. I don't really like the effects. I still don't like Pioneer's filters. And I probably won't use any of the pad functions except the sampler……which is all fine and expected. But it feels like using a Pioneer setup, which is something I'm familiar with. Also, the instant doubles behavior appears to be slightly different from SSL. And 4 decks takes up so much of the screen, it seems like selecting tracks might be more of a PITA than I'm used to……only because I like cover art. And the layered decks aren't that bad. I do wish it was 1234 instead of 3124, but I'll adjust. Also, it appears that the meters are flat-out lying. Some kind of logic appears to be keeping the output clean even when slamming the red. But……that's no big deal. And while I don't have room to leave it out, it fits on my Griffin laptop stands (I have 2) just fine……moving the computer to a bookshelf instead of my desk seems to work great. So, I can actually spin in my apartment, which is good. I measured my xpedit again, and the TTs never would have fit. This takes like 3 minutes to set up the DDJ-SX. TTs usually take 20 to get everything wired and leveled again, plus I just plain don't have that much horizontal space available. I didn't bother recording, but I probably will soon. I'm off to beatport, because it's been too long since I've bought tracks. |
| Leeanna Ayla 01.11.2012 | Interested to hear some long term opinions. |
| Dorie Scelzo 01.11.2012 | I went ahead and picked it up. My initial impressions are very good. I thought it was broken at first before I realized that the channels on the mixer go 3, 1, 2, 4 not 1, 2, 3, 4. It feels like Pioneer, which means that the mixer feels tier 2 (to me) and the "players" feel tier 1, though the platters themselves feel better than CDJs to my hands. It just accessed my serato library right away. I was playing 5 minutes after starting to open the box. So, nothing all that surprising so far. And the size is still a bit big for my apartment, but it seems about right……big enough to not feel cramped……small enough (and easy enough to set up) that it doesn't have to be left out all the time……unlike my TTs. And I like the fact that it's not mirrored. It feels more natural that way. |
| Leeanna Ayla 30.10.2012 | Speaking of having room here's a handy size comparison to help visualize how big the SX is. |
| Dorie Scelzo 30.10.2012 | You're totally right. I found the SX because I was looking to upgrade my mixer and in browsing to see if something had come out that I would believe was hands-down better than an Empath, my search didn't adequately exclude controllers. It peaked my interest because my girlfriend and I don't really have an abundance of space. I don't believe I've actually spun since we moved in together in March. My DJ setup is in storage. There is literally nowhere that can fit it except our coffee table……and even storing it here would be an issue. I've also been without a guitar amp and using modeling software for the same amount of time……which is a huge PITA. The "problem" is that CDJs still kind of feel "off" to me. I like them. I've spun on them. I can perform just fine on them. But actually writing a check for 3-5 thousand dollars worth of stuff is different from spending $40 on some USB keys and letting someone else pay for the CDJs if I ever wind up in clubs. For that money, I could buy a Bill Nash S-57, a Bad Cat Bobcat, and the Mics/cables/stands I'd use to record it……but that wouldn't really fit here either. Alternatively, at the top end, I could get an iMac, a Synth, and some actually half-way decent guitar amp modeling. What would really make me happy would be to go back to spinning vinyl, but I just don't have the budget for vinyl……or the space to put the turntables, let alone the vinyl. And the SX is actually a mixer. So I wouldn't have to change anything right away when I have more room. I'd just plug in my turntables. Really, I believe the question is whether it's worth the $900 price difference to get the SX over an Audio 2 and setting up my Maschine to control Traktor. I've done that before when I was traveling between my place and my girlfriend's place (before we lived together), and it was somewhat enjoyable……but beat matching with knobs really is kind of a PITA. And I know I'll never bother to set beat grids again. |
| Leeanna Ayla 30.10.2012 | I don't believe you would ever be truly happy with just a controller. |
| Dorie Scelzo 30.10.2012 | Decent suggestion oliosky, but I'm not a fan of the 380's layout as much……I remember not being impressed when I saw one. I like Vestax stuff in general, but their 2-deck controllers leave a bit to be desired to me……plus, while I still feel 4 channels is overkill, I often find reasons for 3. Apparently I need to run by GC later today to pick up a power amp for a friend anyway, so I'll check it out then. |
| Johnetta Olewine 29.10.2012 | What about the VCI380? Has the pressure sensitive pads and is serato DJ compatible. Standalone mixer too so you can hook up your TTs with serato if you get more space. That new pioneer thing is an oversize, heavy behemoth IMO. |
| Julissa Serrone 29.10.2012 | If I was a "pro" mobile DJ I'd probably take a good look at the DDJ-SX as it really is feature packed, real mixer, 4 channel, mic inputs, etc. All things wanted/needed for serious mobile gigs. For messing around I've enjoyed the VCI-300 more than any controller (perhaps the NS7 was a bit funner, but huge and heavy as hell). I stopped club DJing a few month back and started selling a few things and my boy Bigbeatz on this community gave me great advice he said "don't sell your tables and don't sell your DJM-800, even if you only use it at home....every time you play on it you are going to feel like a pro playing in a club" and he was 100% correct. So when I play on that gear it's absolutely just for me. the VCI is just very convenient, small, easy to use and I don't do much out of the norm. 2 decks, a few effects, and handful of drops, handful of scratches. There's def. something missing in comparison to "real" gear but I've felt that with every controller. Also with current prices and the VCI being older gear I've seen a VCI-300MK2/VFX-1 combo going on CL for 400.00 bucks. Hard to beat. I believe your choice if you want to play more (even if it is for yourself) and you need to save space is find a controller that "feels" fun for you. I had an S4 and liked it, but never loved it. Much more enjoy the simple VCI. (same way some folks enjoy their VCI-100 with arcades so much. It's just fun). If you get to test out the SX, post up your thoughts on it. |
| Dorie Scelzo 29.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by haze324
The sad thing about turntables is that they're just for me and with where I live now, I can't use them. If I went to a club, I'd burn CDs or use USB sticks. Unless I'm touring/headlining, it's not worth the hassle to set up anything else except maybe a groove box IMO. And I believe I've about missed out on that one at this point.
Originally Posted by haze324
Also, The VCI-300 is still kind of a contender in my mind. I like the way Vestax stuff feels, and it's capable of just about everything I actually do when DJing. It's just that for a few hundred more, I feel like the SX is much more of a controller. Maybe I'll go by GC and see if they have one on the floor yet. |
| Julissa Serrone 29.10.2012 | Do it, and keep your tables. Like you, I started on turntables and have gone through various set ups. I get the most enjoyment from playing on 1200's but to be honest, at home, I play mostly on my VCI-300 when I'm messing aroudn because it's easy, quick, accessable and I can play anywhere in my house on it. I recently plugged in my X1 and DJM into Traktor to try out 2.6 and I couldn't stand it for more than 20 minutes. Just not what I consider fun. Although I have the most fun on tables, when Im at home I don't play on them as much so I can see why having a controller would cause you to play more at home. For me, sometimes I gig with my SL3 and then never hook it back up, or I've taken my mixer to a gig, etc. and instead of hooking things back up I just use my VCI. Now having used a bunch of controllers, I believe the key is to find one you truly enjoy playing on, or you'll be in the same shoes. I had a DDJ-S1 and I still liked the VCI-300 more, in fact I got rid of a VCI for a DDJ-S1 and then went back to a VCI because of it's size I figured I'd give myself more chances to play small parties than lugging around a DDJ. So if the goal is to play more, then get it. If you have the cash I say put your tables under the bed, don't sell them, put your DDJ-SX somewhere you'll use it, and keep your SL card handy in the event you play at a club and just want to take you SSL box. Sell the Vestax. I'd wait till the reviews were out though before buying. |
| Kasandra Kreindler 29.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by mostapha
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| Dorie Scelzo 29.10.2012 |
Originally Posted by NoizeuNit
I have no problem with sync. I just don't get good results out of auto-gridding and I know I won't take the time to grid my tracks manually.
Originally Posted by Shishdisma
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| Nancey Inderlied 29.10.2012 | Realistically, CDJ-850s are like $550 a deck refurb from Pioneer, thats deal of the century if you're looking for a refreshing setup, and costs right around what the SX is going for. The real decision youre going to have to make is what kind of setup you really want. From there it's just what fits your fancy. |
| Kasandra Kreindler 29.10.2012 | why no Xone K2's and a standalone mixer? as much as i like my X1 i believe i will sell it and pick up a pair of K2s, i dont believe i could ever go all in one controller, it just wouldnt be enjoyable |
| Dorie Scelzo 29.10.2012 | XDJ is more expensive and looks like a toy. From looking at it, I know I won't be happy. Plus, I believe I went in to GC and felt one at some point. If I were going to do that, I'd just assume get an SCS.4DJ for small parties and never practice………which is like what I'm doing now, except that I have turntables for the small parties. I don't mind having a computer involved. If I were going to go without it, I'd probably just get CDJs (2000s or 850s) and while I can afford it, I don't want to. And it'd have the same kinds of space problems as the turntables. Lesser CDJs aren't for me. I spent the entire time I had with CDJ-200s wishing they were better. They got abused like mad. To their credit they kept working, but I usually threw them unprotected at my trunk (rather than putting them in it) because after spinning on them, I wanted them to die. I can perform on anything. Enjoying it is 100% feel to me……I might as well not have a setup rather than have something collect dust that I don't enjoy. Apparently my local GC has the DDJ-SX's in stock, though IDK if they're on the floor yet. |
| Nancey Inderlied 29.10.2012 | Why not just get some CDJs, or small CDJs even? Even that XDJ thing has 99% of a 2 deck DVS, and has analogue ins for decks. There are pretty compact setups that don't involve a laptop. |
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