Beat Grids On Live Music
Beat Grids On Live Music Posted on: 10.03.2009 by Nickole Krautbauer Whats the deal with beat grids on live and old disco music that naturally drifts in tempo thoughout the track. Trying to put a beat grid on this type of track is a evening
mare. Any help would be most appeciated. | |
| Desire Piedmont 10.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by djproben
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| Maile Dekerlegand 10.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by Slackman25
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| Desire Piedmont 09.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by Slackman25
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| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
No i dont know anything really , it was suggested in one of the On The Record Sessions that an Traktor will have 'variable grids' implemented in a version after v1.1 We live in hope |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by Zac Kyoti
A Warping ability in Traktor is a little way off yet. |
| Elaina Hoerger 10.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by duerr
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| Belen Wermes 10.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
a human feeling? i do not compute. |
| Desire Piedmont 10.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by djproben
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| Danae Dumler 10.11.2012 | Whooooooaaaaaaaa necrobump. I read the first two pages with an odd feeling of deja vu before I realized the thread was over three years old. |
| Maile Dekerlegand 10.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by Slackman25
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| Desire Piedmont 09.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by Slackman25
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| Roberto Viccione 11.03.2009 | I don't believe it's as simple as that. Ableton permanently changes the file. I couldn't see the resources of this, especially in a live situation, being a simple deal. |
| Nickole Krautbauer 11.03.2009 | Yes if you could drop markers and adjust the tempo in the same way as ableton that would be a fantastic upgrade (come on NI this must be well within your capabilities) |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.03.2009 | Until Traktor Warp Mwahahahaha. Then i wont even utter the word Able-thingy.. For now im a pitch rider !!! |
| Yuonne Cauthron 11.03.2009 | Consensus! Ride the pitch, or Ableton Warp! |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.03.2009 | Yeah im not convinced about variable grids myself. I believe that may have just been a way of saying 'Warping' without stepping on any Ableton toes. Time will tell. |
| Roberto Viccione 11.03.2009 | God damn t3h intArweb rumorz! Well, Id love variable grids, but I don't believe that's gonna be very handy for drift from live drummers (at least as handy as Warp is). so yeah, um... HOPE! |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
No i dont know anything really , it was suggested in one of the On The Record Sessions that an Traktor will have 'variable grids' implemented in a version after v1.1 We live in hope |
| Roberto Viccione 11.03.2009 | Oh that wasn't directed at you, Karlos. It was just a follow-up to Slackman's question. You obviously know something I've been wondering if Traktor would ever implement a Warp function... I'd see it happening at about the same time they implement a VST function. Just don't believe it's something that really works in Traktor's workflow, unless NI wants to start developing their own complete DAW solution to compete with Ableton. Now that would be something. |
| Xavier Emanuels 11.03.2009 | Now if only Traktor had a decent enough sync with Ableton to make it possible to use the master tempo on a track with changing tempos. Which would change abletons tempo in time with the music. I dont believe we will be seeing that any time soon - i suspect we wont see anything until HD midi is supported by both programs. |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.03.2009 | Yeah dude i agree. What im describing is just using a grid just for an intro for a few bars . Then set another grid right at the end of the track for 4 bars. Obviously for a lot of music it just wont work but its worth a try for those guys that need grids to mix. I also prefer to ride the pitch. Its only a matter of time until Traktor has the same warping ability as Ableton. Now that is a tasty prospect. |
| Roberto Viccione 11.03.2009 | You can load the track in Ableton and use the Warp function to normalize the tempo. In Traktor you can set multiple beat grids, but that might not help in this situation as all the second beat marker does is restart the grid from that point with the same tempo. With the nature of drift being what it is, I wouldn't do this. I would either ride the pitch or warp it in Ableton |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 11.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by Zac Kyoti
A Warping ability in Traktor is a little way off yet. |
| Nickole Krautbauer 11.03.2009 | Being a drummer myself I totally understand the concept of drifts in tempo and that on old electronic records recorded or edited via tape to tape there will always be tape stretch to take into consideration. Coming from 18 years of djing vinyl the transition to digital is tricky in respect of the hands on nudges and drags that I would use to keep an old disco in tempo during the mix. So to get this straight I can edit the track in ableton to move the drums around or set muliple grids in traktor ( how many grids can you set?) or ride the pitch in a similar way to vinyl. |
| Reece Murray 10.03.2009 | Keep in mind, at least at this moment in time, Traktor can only recognize one BPM per track. Meaning: Setting multiple grid markers only restarts the grid from that point. Changing bpm will change bpm of EVERY grid in the track. |
| Elaina Hoerger 10.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by duerr
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| Belen Wermes 10.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
a human feeling? i do not compute. |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 10.03.2009 | Yeah my suggestion for Multiple Grids is if you want to keep that 'live' feel and dont want to Warp the track. |
| Virginia Ortiz 10.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by RSDJMoniker
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| Yuonne Cauthron 10.03.2009 | right, getting out of the discussions of 1-2-3 and AI.... Devils is right. if you NEED to get the beatgrid exactly on. Use warp in Ableton, it's really the only way you'll get that to work. I tend to just "ride the pitch" on those tracks. Less time consuming and works great! |
| nayit ruiz jaramillo 10.03.2009 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic Interesting stuff. Basically using approximate logic instead of just Yes / No logic. Apparently Japanese Traffic Light systems use fuzzy logic..! |
| Virginia Ortiz 10.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
the brain can relate to a live drummer because every strike on the drum he makes is to some degree, fuzzy logic. im no expert, these are my assumptions based on what i know. but i find it highly interesting. feed me info |
| Roberto Viccione 10.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by Kaon
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| nayit ruiz jaramillo 10.03.2009 | Its also possible to set multiple grids on tracks. You often find the intro to a track is pretty spot on and the track drifts after that . In my experience its because drummers get a little excited in the chorus and speed up a bit. But in all seriousness try setting a grid point for the intro to bring the track into a mix and set another grid point for the outro . It works . @Kaon, i once mentioned Fuzzy Logic in one of my philosophy lectures (when i was a student) and was told that it was b*ll*cks and it was just a case of having more parameters . I was dissapointed and a little embarrassed !!! Bastard lecturer ! |
| Virginia Ortiz 10.03.2009 |
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct
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| Roberto Viccione 10.03.2009 | Live tracks are recorded with a live drummer. It is practically impossible for a live drummer to not drift the tempo as he's playing by a number of milliseconds, causing a drift when looking at a beat grid. The only way to fix this is with Ableton Lives Warp function, or to manually adjust the grid as you place. It is a fact of live musicianship, and is what gives music a human feeling. |
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