Your opinion: DJM-250 vs Xone:22
Your opinion: DJM-250 vs Xone:22 Posted on: 05.11.2011 by Veda Zarella Hello DJTT'ers,As my sig suggests, I am selling my Mixdeck and want to get some new gear. What I have in mind right now is going with an X1, Audio 2 soundcard, and a 2-channel mixer. I looked around and the two models stated in the titel of this post grabbed most of my attention. I know there are a lot of Xone lovers here on the community s, and also Pioneer lovers. And at the end of the day, what you prefer the most matters (i.e Traktor vs Serato). But I found this one a tough call. I heard about the filter pops etc. of the Xone:22 (Thread about this here) And the overpriced Pioneer gear. My question, I guess, is this: is there really something the Xone engineers forgot when building the 22 which makes it 'bad' ? And should I go with the Pioneer ? I like the twin filters on the Pioneer too. Thanks EDIT: As a matter of fact, someone called 20 mins after posting this thread to ask if he could come and pick the mixdeck up tomorrow ! If I take the DJM-250, it will be here in 2 days if I order it tomorrow. I have to wait 6 Weeks for the Xone:22. should I go with the DJM-250 ? Or are there any other mixers in this price range that i should take a look at ? | |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| cala mar 13.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by D.S.M.I.T.
the pop sucks but the sheer lush that is the VCF filter makes up for it. I always wanted to try an Ecler because of their reputation |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Cornelia Yannes 06.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by simonk
I had TWO Xone 22. TWO! and both of them had very annoying white noise in left headphone (Sennheiser HD 25), other headphones worked better but still there. Unfortunately with low resistance headphones it is constantly there. I tried one mixer, send it back, got second. same. After that I asked for refund. I got Ecler at the end. What a difference with internal sound routing. Basically A&H internal routing is terrible. If you listen on headphones, your volume is wrong outside and vice versa. Not transparent. And there is filter pop as well. No booth out (crucial for me) and no off switch. Not biggest thing but annoying. My points 3 out of 5 I tested Pioneer 250. What a difference. Sound routing is perfect (digital) filters are nice (well nothing beats A&H here in sound quality but functionality is waaay better. AH is awkward to use). Overall very friendly and 10X easier to use mixer. My points 4 out of 5. Not 5 as there are some details (connections) missing. But better mixer IMO. But... Sound quality and EQ shape is amazing on A&H. Well sound quality is high but floor noise is high too. Which means it sounds great but when music is off you can hear internal noise there. Best way to test it is to cut sound off form channels and crank volume up. You will hear shhhhhhhhhhhhh at some level. I checked that and basically A&H lies saying about same quality as "big brothers". Big brothers have 92 floor to noise ratio. Which means they are quiet when volume is high. A&H 22 have it at 78 or 70 something which is average in current standards. SO sound is punchy and great but there is constantly something in the background there. Circuits singing basically. That was no no for me. Combined with headphones constant shhhhhhh in left channels I felt cheated. It is NOT same quality as big brothers. It is cheaper. End of fu**ng story. I dare anybody form A&H to prove me wrong. Go ahead. Test me! Still I love how A&H sounds. EQ.. when you mix is like you understand your music more. You hear more. You see more. FU**ng ground noises! I would love that mixer to be perfect but this level of noise is just not acceptable for me. And yes! I grounded mixer and tried everything. I had other mixer to compare and it was working normally (Denon DMX300). My final word is this: If you are a beginner then go with Pioneer. Not even believe about A&H. Learn and progress to better mixer. This mixer has brains. If you mix for some time (vinyl preferably) and want to test new sound dimension and you don't care as much about mixer noise (quiet but there) and you can digest trough annoying gimmicks of A&H (filter pop, different volumes on headphones, awkward filter functionality. Then you may want to try A&H. This mixer has soul. At the end I forked out more cash and bought Ecler Nuo 4. This is pure sound surgery. Clear and quiet like digital Pioneer with better sound like A&H (but not as full as A&H). I put it one notch below A&H sound. But waaaay better that Pioneer 250 sound (preferably for CD - then is fine). I do not know new Nexus sound so I will not say it's better. I know overall Pioneer mixers were not best in sound category overall. It improved I am sure but I like analog better. New NI Z2 mixer will stir the market. If I were to buy mixer now that would be my choice. I hope I helped with this post. I have spend number of hours reading about both of them online (everything probably) and if I knew this before... Anyway. I suggest Thomann as they offer free return within 30 days and they will pay for sending stuff back. What a shop. And yes. It's about what you play and what you use. A&H have fantastic long faders so it's nicer for long transitions. Pioneer is straight to the point and get the job done. Last advice from life experience. If you play little drunk (and believe me you will be at some stage sooner or later) with A&H you will screw it up for sure. It is just not as intuitive as it should be and it has quirks that are not tolerable when you are flying high (Filter knob and button - you are fu**ked). UNRELIABLE With Pioneer you can be shit faced and still you'll be OK to have fun. Basically its brain dead simple to use and RELIABLE. Sorry for long post. Go google picture of potato |
| cala mar 13.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by D.S.M.I.T.
the pop sucks but the sheer lush that is the VCF filter makes up for it. I always wanted to try an Ecler because of their reputation |
| Kiyoko Wellisch 13.11.2012 | The Nuo 5 is really cool. I wish Ecler would come back from the dead and release a new version of it, I'd be all over that. |
| Cira Ditz 12.11.2012 | well, on Sunday I managed to win a Nuo 5 on ebay. Rather love it (being able to have post fader send/returns with my RMX 1000 is every bit as fun and creative as was hoping for). It's got an Eternal crossfader too which is very fast The build in FX are much more on the subtle side (and the filters are very understated - am not so subtle so guess will prob just keep with my rmx for FX) The EQ is just like I'd read on other community s - mid has the most frequencies, and the highs set very high and the lows much lower than most. Tbh believe this will take a while to learn to get the best from it - but I don't mind it and the bass kill switch is great to have. Maybe I could/should have just got a new Nuo given I prob won't use the built in FX too much but all in all this is an unexpected direction in mixers for me (was sure was gonna go for a Pioneer) but loving having a piece of gear as good as this |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | aww thats a shame (hadn't noticed the stock availability) :/ I was in just last weekend when the price dropped and was hugely tempted (as at the mo all I have is an old 16 channel cheap n chearful Behringer stage mixer) but S/R is what I really am needing so held off. Aww well, be interested to see if they've a new entry level mixer in the works. Cheers also for the gumtree suggestion. Never tried one before but from people's comments here and elsewhere they sound a very well made mixer, and I especially liked how you can post fader the fx. |
| Kiyoko Wellisch 08.11.2012 | Hey, nice price. Looks like they might be sold out though. btw, with the Nuos, sometimes you see them on gumtree and ebay for next to nothing. Worth keeping an eye out for them. |
| Cira Ditz 08.11.2012 | Read this thread with great interest and loved people's various comments. I'm currently looking for a standalone mixer with pref a send/return and tbh hadn't considered the Ecler range - been reading about them all day and never knew even the 2 channel NUO 2.0 had a send return and pre/post fader possibilities. Am likely still to go for a DJM 700 just as they have one at work, but will def keep my eye on Eclan and the A&H mixers. The main drawback for me is no filters on the Ecler's but seeing as I have my Pio RMX 1000 that may well be a lot of FX I can still play with. Incidentally, if you're in the UK there's been two very tempting price drops recently on the DJM 250 and you can get them for |
| Joesph Perrodin 08.11.2012 | i may swap my DJM250 could do with more channels, its new (2 weeks old) with box manual if anyone's interested swap would have to collect in Cheshire England UK I'm after one of these if possible all good condition Pioneer DJM600 Vestax PMC 46 Denon DNX1500S Vestax PMC 280 please no stanton gemini kam numark reloop etc etc thanks |
| Kiyoko Wellisch 07.11.2012 | I really hope that Ecler DJ Division one day springs back to life and blesses us with a new line of mixers. Something like the Nuo range but with per channel filters and a USB soundcard setup for DVS use. Maybe even a simple FX unit. Never gunna happen though ;-; |
| Ming Devis 07.11.2012 | If only the nuo had a high pass filter I would have one in a heart beat |
| Tatum Ansaldo 08.11.2012 | I'd have a nuo 2.0 over either of those any day. |
| Kiyoko Wellisch 08.11.2012 | I know this isn't helpful but I'd vote Ecler Nuo 2.0. I really do believe it's the best 2 channel mixer in that price range. |
| Erich Vallabhaneni 07.11.2012 | I vote A&H all day |
| Ming Devis 07.11.2012 | Xone 22 is a great little bedroom mixer. The filters and tight eq's are ace |
| Antonetta Domenech 06.11.2012 | hey, had the same decision to make a while back. we pretty much have the same set up cept I got reloop contours not x1s anyways the Xone22 came up on ebay half price I snaped at it and love it. Its a great mixer everything this guy said above me is ture but I'm not that picky and don't notice the headphone noise when in the middle of a mix. The filter does pop when you turn it on but it don't pop out the master so i really don't care cos it sounds so nice, and the eqs are amazing as well. really happy with the rec & both outputs since I use it for internet streaming, didn't believe I would need em but I couldn't live without em now. |
| Cornelia Yannes 06.11.2012 |
Originally Posted by simonk
I had TWO Xone 22. TWO! and both of them had very annoying white noise in left headphone (Sennheiser HD 25), other headphones worked better but still there. Unfortunately with low resistance headphones it is constantly there. I tried one mixer, send it back, got second. same. After that I asked for refund. I got Ecler at the end. What a difference with internal sound routing. Basically A&H internal routing is terrible. If you listen on headphones, your volume is wrong outside and vice versa. Not transparent. And there is filter pop as well. No booth out (crucial for me) and no off switch. Not biggest thing but annoying. My points 3 out of 5 I tested Pioneer 250. What a difference. Sound routing is perfect (digital) filters are nice (well nothing beats A&H here in sound quality but functionality is waaay better. AH is awkward to use). Overall very friendly and 10X easier to use mixer. My points 4 out of 5. Not 5 as there are some details (connections) missing. But better mixer IMO. But... Sound quality and EQ shape is amazing on A&H. Well sound quality is high but floor noise is high too. Which means it sounds great but when music is off you can hear internal noise there. Best way to test it is to cut sound off form channels and crank volume up. You will hear shhhhhhhhhhhhh at some level. I checked that and basically A&H lies saying about same quality as "big brothers". Big brothers have 92 floor to noise ratio. Which means they are quiet when volume is high. A&H 22 have it at 78 or 70 something which is average in current standards. SO sound is punchy and great but there is constantly something in the background there. Circuits singing basically. That was no no for me. Combined with headphones constant shhhhhhh in left channels I felt cheated. It is NOT same quality as big brothers. It is cheaper. End of fu**ng story. I dare anybody form A&H to prove me wrong. Go ahead. Test me! Still I love how A&H sounds. EQ.. when you mix is like you understand your music more. You hear more. You see more. FU**ng ground noises! I would love that mixer to be perfect but this level of noise is just not acceptable for me. And yes! I grounded mixer and tried everything. I had other mixer to compare and it was working normally (Denon DMX300). My final word is this: If you are a beginner then go with Pioneer. Not even believe about A&H. Learn and progress to better mixer. This mixer has brains. If you mix for some time (vinyl preferably) and want to test new sound dimension and you don't care as much about mixer noise (quiet but there) and you can digest trough annoying gimmicks of A&H (filter pop, different volumes on headphones, awkward filter functionality. Then you may want to try A&H. This mixer has soul. At the end I forked out more cash and bought Ecler Nuo 4. This is pure sound surgery. Clear and quiet like digital Pioneer with better sound like A&H (but not as full as A&H). I put it one notch below A&H sound. But waaaay better that Pioneer 250 sound (preferably for CD - then is fine). I do not know new Nexus sound so I will not say it's better. I know overall Pioneer mixers were not best in sound category overall. It improved I am sure but I like analog better. New NI Z2 mixer will stir the market. If I were to buy mixer now that would be my choice. I hope I helped with this post. I have spend number of hours reading about both of them online (everything probably) and if I knew this before... Anyway. I suggest Thomann as they offer free return within 30 days and they will pay for sending stuff back. What a shop. And yes. It's about what you play and what you use. A&H have fantastic long faders so it's nicer for long transitions. Pioneer is straight to the point and get the job done. Last advice from life experience. If you play little drunk (and believe me you will be at some stage sooner or later) with A&H you will screw it up for sure. It is just not as intuitive as it should be and it has quirks that are not tolerable when you are flying high (Filter knob and button - you are fu**ked). UNRELIABLE With Pioneer you can be shit faced and still you'll be OK to have fun. Basically its brain dead simple to use and RELIABLE. Sorry for long post. Go google picture of potato |
| Joesph Perrodin 06.11.2012 | I've got a pioneer djm250 very good mixer, nice sound & filters are really good |
| Lilliana Perris 17.03.2012 | Buy what you want.....you gonna sell it within a year....guaranteed. I got the 22 and put an Innofader in it. ITS SICK. But yeah....will you be playing out with it? If not, then all the above points are moot. |
| Hipolito Scionti 16.03.2012 | They don't call em Allen and Grief for nothing |
| Monroe Vandeslunt 05.11.2011 | I chose the Xone because it was available in my country and I saw a deal go up where someone was trying to sell their second hand one for about half price. However in hindsight even if I had to buy brand new I would probably buy it still. My 3 gripes with the mixer are these. 1) Filter pop. Its a product of analog circuits though. 2) Volume when monitoring both channels. This is because of the way they designed the cue knob. You can workaround it by turning up the headphone level. Just remember to turn it back down before you switch the cue to master. This is not a problem if you prefer to listen to only one channel in your headphones either. 3) Connected FX loop causing a lower volume. I have the FX loop connected back to my TA6 for post fader effects. When I engage the FX loop using the filter button for the channel there is noticeable drop in volume. Not a huge amount but slightly. In one of my tests I had the FX loop button (at the top of the mixer) off, but still when I engage the filter button the audio level drops. Despite these gripes I still believe I made the right choice. I love the output options on the mixer and I feel that the quality is quite good actually. I don't believe I could live with the mediocre output options of the pioneer, how can you presume to make a professional product and then cripple it with such poor output options? |
| Veda Zarella 05.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by addictive
Couldn't you also leave the filter on and just turn the knob when you want to, which would aboid the pop ? |
| Kasi Marget 05.11.2011 | I heard from a guy that recently, since A&H products are made in china, and not in the UK anymore, quality tends to go down. Pioneers are really strict on quality control, and their mixers can last for years without a single problem, but the sound might not be as good. I'm in a same dilema between DJM 800 and Xone 92, and A&H lack of reliability will probably make me go for Pioneer. If anyone can confirm this, that would be cool (any Black Xone 92 owner would be nice since it's the product that seems to break the most ) |
| Kalyn Billodeau 05.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by moss2626
As an entry level mixer I always suggest the 22 to people. With this new Pioneer mixer, I just dont know which one is better. Would love to play with the DJM250 for a bit, seems like a really nice mixer! |
| Veda Zarella 05.11.2011 |
Originally Posted by Retrow
|
| Lucienne Stenton 05.11.2011 | xone 22 is a perfect mixer, im extremely happy with it. Ive had it for about 2 months now and i'd buy it again anytime. Never really noticed the filter pops, but you can also just "spam" push the filter button like 10 times before a session and it wont pop at all. I'd say the Xone is all you'd want out of a mixer, especially the filters! |
| Fred Offill 05.11.2011 | It's not that the engineers of allen & heath forgot it or didn't try to fix it . It's because it's analogue . All xone mixers have the pop unfortunately . |
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