hey, i am about buying new traktor setup but i dont know if its better to buy Z2 because of makro knobs, flux mode etc. or S4 because of jog wheels ...
My setup will be X1,F1, Launchpad and Z2/S4
Um, it's a little bit of both actually. He was mostly throwing parties in Detroit as Plastikman playing tunes he produced. He wouldn't be where he is today without his producing, that's for sure. But I completely disagree with the fact that you aren't a dj unless you use jogwheels. What kind of logic is that?! And Carl Cox got famous being a DJ as opposed to producing, iirc.
I guess it depends how you define famous. He was very well known in the Detroit techno scene when he was DJing at the shelter pre-plastikman. Back when he went by Richie Rich.
Absolutely correct. Anyone who believes Hawtin is doing the DJ/Producer half-DJ/half-PA thing that is so popular with many artists has clearly never ever seen him play. And while his production work certainly pushed him to international fame, he was famous in Detroit as a DJ first.
Um, it's a little bit of both actually. He was mostly throwing parties in Detroit as Plastikman playing tunes he produced. He wouldn't be where he is today without his producing, that's for sure. But I completely disagree with the fact that you aren't a dj unless you use jogwheels. What kind of logic is that?! And Carl Cox got famous being a DJ as opposed to producing, iirc.
They are DJing. You very rarely hear a Track for example from Plastikman in a set of Richie, they mostly play tracks from other artists of their label. And i do believe they got famous for DJing in the first place. I know they all started out on TTs but as the technology changed so did their setup and way of DJing.
Absolutely correct. Anyone who believes Hawtin is doing the DJ/Producer half-DJ/half-PA thing that is so popular with many artists has clearly never ever seen him play. And while his production work certainly pushed him to international fame, he was famous in Detroit as a DJ first.
You have no understanding of beatmatching, I take it. It's a thing. That's why they're on controllers. I use jogwheels in every single set I play to beatmatch things that I couldn't sync if i wanted to.
You don't mix out of other DJs...? Or tagteam? And you don't mix tracks that don't have a consistent tempo the entire time? Not having the ability to beatmatch deeply limits you as a DJ.
The lack of jogs doesn't take away the ability to beatmatch.
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
The important thing you're missing is that not a single one of those people got famous for DJing. They are all producers, and they're doing live PA with no jogs, they're not really DJing.
They are DJing. You very rarely hear a Track for example from Plastikman in a set of Richie, they mostly play tracks from other artists of their label. And i do believe they got famous for DJing in the first place. I know they all started out on TTs but as the technology changed so did their setup and way of DJing.
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
In the meta-game, there are two kinds of performers: DJs and live PA artists. The software you're using doesn't matter here, it's what you're seen as.
I wouldn't go to a show of either of these artists i listed to just hear them play out their own songs, its their tune selection and way of mixing that is interesting and enjoyable.
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
Traditionally live PA artists have stems, which is why they aren't beatmatching, they're manipulating specific parts of the track. When you're working with flattened tracks, you're DJing, and you need to be beatmatching, or at least fool people into believeing you are, or you won't be taken seriously.
You will not be able to believe of a single performer who got famous from DJing other people's flat tracks without jogwheels, that's just how it is.
Just because i don't beatmatch manually doesn't mean my beats aren'd matched. I use the sync function and i am not even a little ashamed of it.
I believe we are going towards another Digital DJ vs TTs/CDjs discussion here and that will not bring us to any point, so this was my last post on this thread.
My main point is: Do what suits you best and what you enjoy most. If you want to go vinyl only, do that, if you want to go fully Digital, do that! Just dont do anything because others tell you it's cool and you won't be respected otherwise. It's the music that makes a good DJ, not his setup!
Yeah i do not beatmatch manually because i do not have the need to do so, i place my beatgrids and cuepoints how i need them while preparing. Its a matter of personal preference.
You don't mix out of other DJs...? Or tagteam? And you don't mix tracks that don't have a consistent tempo the entire time? Not having the ability to beatmatch deeply limits you as a DJ.
Originally Posted by Volpe
As for well big djs using controlers, have a look at the contemporary techno scene, you will find lots of djs playing with just controllers, for example: richie hawtin, dubfire, chris liebing, umek to just name a few big ones. Thats the direction i want to go with my sets and my setup. Im not a trap/moombah dj.
(I'm aware the djs i listed are also producers, but all of the do their sets with traktor, not with ableton like most producers do. Even ean golden now has a setup with just 3 midifighters an an ext. mixer, no jogs)
The important thing you're missing is that not a single one of those people got famous for DJing. They are all producers, and they're doing live PA with no jogs, they're not really DJing.
In the meta-game, there are two kinds of performers: DJs and live PA artists. The software you're using doesn't matter here, it's what you're seen as.
Traditionally live PA artists have stems, which is why they aren't beatmatching, they're manipulating specific parts of the track. When you're working with flattened tracks, you're DJing, and you need to be beatmatching, or at least fool people into believeing you are, or you won't be taken seriously.
You will not be able to believe of a single performer who got famous from DJing other people's flat tracks without jogwheels, that's just how it is.
completely disagreed. the only reason you need jogwheels are to seek through the tracks and set cuepoints where they are needed, since you cannot scratch with wheels of that size. setting cuepoints on your tracks should always be part of your preperation and not happen during your gigs/shows, so you can easily do that at home using your mouse.
You have no understanding of beatmatching, I take it. It's a thing. That's why they're on controllers. I use jogwheels in every single set I play to beatmatch things that I couldn't sync if i wanted to.
Originally Posted by Volpe
and get a very expensive timecode setup just to look impressive is one of the most stupidest things i've ever heard. many respected djs using controllers dont have jogwheels because they are simply not needed.
No, many respected producers are using controllers with no jogwheels. In my experience, very few DJs without jogwheels are getting slots that matter at real events. The DJs playing without jogwheels are pretty much always kids setting up their own events to transition between electrohosue and moombah and trapstep tracks.
In my experience, you will not be taken nearly as seriously by anyone if you don't have jogwheels.
Don't get an S4. The only reason that the S4 is ever a good choice is if you're going to be spinning timecode (because the sound card is scratch certified), but if you're considering the Z2, then this point is moot, because the Z2 is better, and also scratch certified. There are FAR better controllers FAR cheaper than the S4. You can't really remap the S4, and they start falling apart in a month.
my advice would be either:
A: Timecode + the Z2/F1/X1. You can get a pair of used direct-drive stanton/gemini turntables for $200 bucks easy. Or if you're patient, you can find a deal on Technics 1200's for $500. It's impractical for most of us to bring turntables to gigs, so once you've learned this setup, look into HID mode on the pioneer CDJs, and use them if the gig doesn't have Turntables. Bring control CDs to all your gigs just in case they have neither turntables nor pioneer CDJs. It'd cost an extra $200-$500, but besides being fun to play on, setups that let you incorporate CDJs/turntables look very impressive to promoters/other DJs.
B: if you want to stay on straight controllers, look into buying two of the Behringer PL-1. You wouldn't need the kontrol X1 any more, and you'd have high-res jogwheels, all for $300.
completely disagreed. the only reason you need jogwheels are to seek through the tracks and set cuepoints where they are needed, since you cannot scratch with wheels of that size. setting cuepoints on your tracks should always be part of your preperation and not happen during your gigs/shows, so you can easily do that at home using your mouse.
and get a very expensive timecode setup just to look impressive is one of the most stupidest things i've ever heard. many respected djs using controllers dont have jogwheels because they are simply not needed.
as for the s4 or z2, you have to decide if you want to stay fully digital or get an external standalone mixer.
the s4 is a good controller and with an additional x1 you can easily control 4 decks. but also have a look at other 4-channel mixers on the market. i use a xone 92 (pretty expensive i know) with two x1s and am completely happy, but maybe check out others on the market, like xone 42/62, denon dnx 1100/1600 or pioneer.
i dont like the z2 because it only has two channels, but that depends on how you plan to use your setup.
You can't really remap the S4, and they start falling apart in a month.
Sure you can re map the S4, and it is very solid built, it won't start falling apart in a month unless you treat it like a pair of shoes, and not like a piece of audio gear
.
What will you be mixing? Do you need jogwheels for cueing? Will you just map them for fx? Being as you have a pile of buttons already, go for the z2.
hey, i am about buying new traktor setup but i dont know if its better to buy Z2 because of makro knobs, flux mode etc. or S4 because of jog wheels ...
My setup will be X1,F1, Launchpad and Z2/S4
Um, it's a little bit of both actually. He was mostly throwing parties in Detroit as Plastikman playing tunes he produced. He wouldn't be where he is today without his producing, that's for sure. But I completely disagree with the fact that you aren't a dj unless you use jogwheels. What kind of logic is that?! And Carl Cox got famous being a DJ as opposed to producing, iirc.
I guess it depends how you define famous. He was very well known in the Detroit techno scene when he was DJing at the shelter pre-plastikman. Back when he went by Richie Rich.
Absolutely correct. Anyone who believes Hawtin is doing the DJ/Producer half-DJ/half-PA thing that is so popular with many artists has clearly never ever seen him play. And while his production work certainly pushed him to international fame, he was famous in Detroit as a DJ first.
Um, it's a little bit of both actually. He was mostly throwing parties in Detroit as Plastikman playing tunes he produced. He wouldn't be where he is today without his producing, that's for sure. But I completely disagree with the fact that you aren't a dj unless you use jogwheels. What kind of logic is that?! And Carl Cox got famous being a DJ as opposed to producing, iirc.
They are DJing. You very rarely hear a Track for example from Plastikman in a set of Richie, they mostly play tracks from other artists of their label. And i do believe they got famous for DJing in the first place. I know they all started out on TTs but as the technology changed so did their setup and way of DJing.
Absolutely correct. Anyone who believes Hawtin is doing the DJ/Producer half-DJ/half-PA thing that is so popular with many artists has clearly never ever seen him play. And while his production work certainly pushed him to international fame, he was famous in Detroit as a DJ first.
You have no understanding of beatmatching, I take it. It's a thing. That's why they're on controllers. I use jogwheels in every single set I play to beatmatch things that I couldn't sync if i wanted to.
You don't mix out of other DJs...? Or tagteam? And you don't mix tracks that don't have a consistent tempo the entire time? Not having the ability to beatmatch deeply limits you as a DJ.
The lack of jogs doesn't take away the ability to beatmatch.
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
The important thing you're missing is that not a single one of those people got famous for DJing. They are all producers, and they're doing live PA with no jogs, they're not really DJing.
They are DJing. You very rarely hear a Track for example from Plastikman in a set of Richie, they mostly play tracks from other artists of their label. And i do believe they got famous for DJing in the first place. I know they all started out on TTs but as the technology changed so did their setup and way of DJing.
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
In the meta-game, there are two kinds of performers: DJs and live PA artists. The software you're using doesn't matter here, it's what you're seen as.
I wouldn't go to a show of either of these artists i listed to just hear them play out their own songs, its their tune selection and way of mixing that is interesting and enjoyable.
Originally Posted by whiskeyflip
Traditionally live PA artists have stems, which is why they aren't beatmatching, they're manipulating specific parts of the track. When you're working with flattened tracks, you're DJing, and you need to be beatmatching, or at least fool people into believeing you are, or you won't be taken seriously.
You will not be able to believe of a single performer who got famous from DJing other people's flat tracks without jogwheels, that's just how it is.
Just because i don't beatmatch manually doesn't mean my beats aren'd matched. I use the sync function and i am not even a little ashamed of it.
I believe we are going towards another Digital DJ vs TTs/CDjs discussion here and that will not bring us to any point, so this was my last post on this thread.
My main point is: Do what suits you best and what you enjoy most. If you want to go vinyl only, do that, if you want to go fully Digital, do that! Just dont do anything because others tell you it's cool and you won't be respected otherwise. It's the music that makes a good DJ, not his setup!
Whiskeyflip you have some serious snobbery issues. I've mixed out of other dj's, gone back to back and even tag teamed all without the use of jogwheels. Rocking a dance floor is what gets you taken seriously, how you conduct yourself in the booth is what gets you taken Seriously. NOT what gear
you use. At least not in the UK from my experience.
Why should someone spend money on gear
just to have a feature (ie a jogwheel) that they have no use for. And FYI you DEFINITELY don't need a jogwheel to beatmatch. I held a residency for years where the installed gear
was a cd mixing unit without jogwheels. All I needed to beatmatch perfectly was a pitch fader and tempo buttons. Not once did I not get taken seriously due to the lack of jogwheels. Everyone was too busy busting it on the dance floor to give a shit what I was playing on.
Yeah i do not beatmatch manually because i do not have the need to do so, i place my beatgrids and cuepoints how i need them while preparing. Its a matter of personal preference.
You don't mix out of other DJs...? Or tagteam? And you don't mix tracks that don't have a consistent tempo the entire time? Not having the ability to beatmatch deeply limits you as a DJ.
Originally Posted by Volpe
As for well big djs using controlers, have a look at the contemporary techno scene, you will find lots of djs playing with just controllers, for example: richie hawtin, dubfire, chris liebing, umek to just name a few big ones. Thats the direction i want to go with my sets and my setup. Im not a trap/moombah dj.
(I'm aware the djs i listed are also producers, but all of the do their sets with traktor, not with ableton like most producers do. Even ean golden now has a setup with just 3 midifighters an an ext. mixer, no jogs)
The important thing you're missing is that not a single one of those people got famous for DJing. They are all producers, and they're doing live PA with no jogs, they're not really DJing.
In the meta-game, there are two kinds of performers: DJs and live PA artists. The software you're using doesn't matter here, it's what you're seen as.
Traditionally live PA artists have stems, which is why they aren't beatmatching, they're manipulating specific parts of the track. When you're working with flattened tracks, you're DJing, and you need to be beatmatching, or at least fool people into believeing you are, or you won't be taken seriously.
You will not be able to believe of a single performer who got famous from DJing other people's flat tracks without jogwheels, that's just how it is.
Yeah i do not beatmatch manually because i do not have the need to do so, i place my beatgrids and cuepoints how i need them while preparing. Its a matter of personal preference.
As for well big djs using controlers, have a look at the contemporary techno scene, you will find lots of djs playing with just controllers, for example: richie hawtin, dubfire, chris liebing, umek to just name a few big ones. Thats the direction i want to go with my sets and my setup. Im not a trap/moombah dj.
(I'm aware the djs i listed are also producers, but all of the do their sets with traktor, not with ableton like most producers do. Even ean golden now has a setup with just 3 midifighters an an ext. mixer, no jogs)
completely disagreed. the only reason you need jogwheels are to seek through the tracks and set cuepoints where they are needed, since you cannot scratch with wheels of that size. setting cuepoints on your tracks should always be part of your preperation and not happen during your gigs/shows, so you can easily do that at home using your mouse.
You have no understanding of beatmatching, I take it. It's a thing. That's why they're on controllers. I use jogwheels in every single set I play to beatmatch things that I couldn't sync if i wanted to.
Originally Posted by Volpe
and get a very expensive timecode setup just to look impressive is one of the most stupidest things i've ever heard. many respected djs using controllers dont have jogwheels because they are simply not needed.
No, many respected producers are using controllers with no jogwheels. In my experience, very few DJs without jogwheels are getting slots that matter at real events. The DJs playing without jogwheels are pretty much always kids setting up their own events to transition between electrohosue and moombah and trapstep tracks.
In my experience, you will not be taken nearly as seriously by anyone if you don't have jogwheels.
Don't get an S4. The only reason that the S4 is ever a good choice is if you're going to be spinning timecode (because the sound card is scratch certified), but if you're considering the Z2, then this point is moot, because the Z2 is better, and also scratch certified. There are FAR better controllers FAR cheaper than the S4. You can't really remap the S4, and they start falling apart in a month.
my advice would be either:
A: Timecode + the Z2/F1/X1. You can get a pair of used direct-drive stanton/gemini turntables for $200 bucks easy. Or if you're patient, you can find a deal on Technics 1200's for $500. It's impractical for most of us to bring turntables to gigs, so once you've learned this setup, look into HID mode on the pioneer CDJs, and use them if the gig doesn't have Turntables. Bring control CDs to all your gigs just in case they have neither turntables nor pioneer CDJs. It'd cost an extra $200-$500, but besides being fun to play on, setups that let you incorporate CDJs/turntables look very impressive to promoters/other DJs.
B: if you want to stay on straight controllers, look into buying two of the Behringer PL-1. You wouldn't need the kontrol X1 any more, and you'd have high-res jogwheels, all for $300.
completely disagreed. the only reason you need jogwheels are to seek through the tracks and set cuepoints where they are needed, since you cannot scratch with wheels of that size. setting cuepoints on your tracks should always be part of your preperation and not happen during your gigs/shows, so you can easily do that at home using your mouse.
and get a very expensive timecode setup just to look impressive is one of the most stupidest things i've ever heard. many respected djs using controllers dont have jogwheels because they are simply not needed.
as for the s4 or z2, you have to decide if you want to stay fully digital or get an external standalone mixer.
the s4 is a good controller and with an additional x1 you can easily control 4 decks. but also have a look at other 4-channel mixers on the market. i use a xone 92 (pretty expensive i know) with two x1s and am completely happy, but maybe check out others on the market, like xone 42/62, denon dnx 1100/1600 or pioneer.
i dont like the z2 because it only has two channels, but that depends on how you plan to use your setup.
You can't really remap the S4, and they start falling apart in a month.
Sure you can re map the S4, and it is very solid built, it won't start falling apart in a month unless you treat it like a pair of shoes, and not like a piece of audio gear
.
What will you be mixing? Do you need jogwheels for cueing? Will you just map them for fx? Being as you have a pile of buttons already, go for the z2.
In my experience, you will not be taken nearly as seriously by anyone if you don't have jogwheels.
Don't get an S4. The only reason that the S4 is ever a good choice is if you're going to be spinning timecode (because the sound card is scratch certified), but if you're considering the Z2, then this point is moot, because the Z2 is better, and also scratch certified. There are FAR better controllers FAR cheaper than the S4. You can't really remap the S4, and they start falling apart in a month.
my advice would be either:
A: Timecode + the Z2/F1/X1. You can get a pair of used direct-drive stanton/gemini turntables for $200 bucks easy. Or if you're patient, you can find a deal on Technics 1200's for $500. It's impractical for most of us to bring turntables to gigs, so once you've learned this setup, look into HID mode on the pioneer CDJs, and use them if the gig doesn't have Turntables. Bring control CDs to all your gigs just in case they have neither turntables nor pioneer CDJs. It'd cost an extra $200-$500, but besides being fun to play on, setups that let you incorporate CDJs/turntables look very impressive to promoters/other DJs.
B: if you want to stay on straight controllers, look into buying two of the Behringer PL-1. You wouldn't need the kontrol X1 any more, and you'd have high-res jogwheels, all for $300.
