2 Midi Fighters won't work at the same time! :(

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2 Midi Fighters won't work at the same time! :(
Posted on: 29.04.2011 by Marguerite Salsedo
Ok so here's the situation, I have a VCI 100, regular Midi Fighter and a Custom Midi Fighter. Using a Macbook Pro with Snow Leopard, Traktor Pro (haven't upgraded to 2 yet).
Regular MF is on Channel 3, Custom on Channel 4, so I know it's not a mapping conflict.
Now, regardless of my VCI 100 being plugged in or not, I can plug in either one of the MFs individually and it will work, no problems.
The problem comes when I plug both in. Whichever is plugged in second will not send to Traktor, although it will receive (the beat pulsing LED on the Custom still pulses with both plugged in). This happens regardless of which USB port I use, whether I use a USB hub or not.

I have a slight suspicion that Traktor might be picking up both MFs as being the same device as maybe they are recognized under the same name? But I have no idea how to change that. That's really my only guess about the problem... other than that I know both MFs are in full working order, just they don't want to play with each other
Marguerite Salsedo
05.06.2011
Originally Posted by conduitrobotic
I run two midi fighters without any issue in tp2. I kept them both on channel 3 and both show up as separate devices in my tp2 device manager. I have been running them in tandem for a week or two without any mapping issues.

Here is a picture of what shows up when I look at the in-port drop down box - https://skitch.com/parabuzzle/fdnt5/preferences
There might the the difference, mine are on different channels because of the mapping... and yes, both of mine show up similar to how yours do, problem is getting traktor to recognize them as different controllers as opposed to slotting them both under the first "MidiFighter".

A few questions:
* Are you using a usb hub?
* Have you tried rebooting your computer?
* Have you tried connecting only the 2 MF's with the separate usb ports?
In response the questions:
usb hub makes no difference to the issue or the workaround, believe me I have tried.
Bingo, no difference.
Again, changes nothing.

* Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last evening ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlCLuIwuVgQ
Danae Dumler
09.05.2011
Originally Posted by Fatlimey
The problem would be cached USB descriptors. To speed up waking from sleep and boot times, modern Operating Systems cache a copy of the most recent USB descriptor for each deviceand only re-read them if they believe something has changed. Try unplugging your devices and putting them into a different port, failing that there are development tools to flush USB descriptors.
Does Traktor cache them or just the OS? I tried this and no dice -- the midifighter appears as "MF-BEER" in the System Profile, so I know the OS knows it (that's what I changed the name to), but Traktor still only reports that "Midifighter (Midifighter)" is connected when I look in the controller manager. This is true even if I unplug all other midi controllers and switch out the USB port the midifighter is plugged into.

I'm running TSP 1.2.7 by the way, but when I open TSP 2.0.1 I have the same exact result.
robert chanda
10.05.2011
Originally Posted by djproben
In Audio Midi settings it looks the same as it did before. No I couldn't find my changed name anywhere but maybe there's somewhere else to look on Mac?

--Update - I just checked the System Profiler and indeed the USB name for my Midifighter has changed! So I did something right. Now we just gotta figure out why Traktor sees both midifighters as the same name?
The problem would be cached USB descriptors. To speed up waking from sleep and boot times, modern Operating Systems cache a copy of the most recent USB descriptor for each deviceand only re-read them if they believe something has changed. Try unplugging your devices and putting them into a different port, failing that there are development tools to flush USB descriptors.
Marguerite Salsedo
05.06.2011
Originally Posted by conduitrobotic
I run two midi fighters without any issue in tp2. I kept them both on channel 3 and both show up as separate devices in my tp2 device manager. I have been running them in tandem for a week or two without any mapping issues.

Here is a picture of what shows up when I look at the in-port drop down box - https://skitch.com/parabuzzle/fdnt5/preferences
There might the the difference, mine are on different channels because of the mapping... and yes, both of mine show up similar to how yours do, problem is getting traktor to recognize them as different controllers as opposed to slotting them both under the first "MidiFighter".

A few questions:
* Are you using a usb hub?
* Have you tried rebooting your computer?
* Have you tried connecting only the 2 MF's with the separate usb ports?
In response the questions:
usb hub makes no difference to the issue or the workaround, believe me I have tried.
Bingo, no difference.
Again, changes nothing.

* Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last evening ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlCLuIwuVgQ
Eva Rzeznik
05.06.2011		I run two midi fighters without any issue in tp2. I kept them both on channel 3 and both show up as separate devices in my tp2 device manager. I have been running them in tandem for a week or two without any mapping issues.

Here is a picture of what shows up when I look at the in-port drop down box - https://skitch.com/parabuzzle/fdnt5/preferences

A few questions:
* Are you using a usb hub?
* Have you tried rebooting your computer?
* Have you tried connecting only the 2 MF's with the separate usb ports?
* Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last evening ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlCLuIwuVgQ
Danae Dumler
04.06.2011		It's weird though some people are not having this problem at all; apparently it depends on the order the different mappings load? But it doesn't seem to change for me no matter where I plug in each controller.
Marguerite Salsedo
04.06.2011		Just thought I'd check back on this... sorry to see there is still no true fix, though you're still working towards a solution, djproben, which is awesome!
I wonder if Ean Golden is using the same workaround you, and now I, are using?
Danae Dumler
16.05.2011		This doesn't work (plugging and unplugging). I'm guessing that traktor gets the same information every time. I change USB ports to no avail as well. Every other program seems to see the different USB descriptors but traktor believes they are the same.
Kimberly Lewark
12.05.2011		Not as far as I can see, unfortunately. Sorry!

By the way (I'm a programmer, not a DJ, I don't know squat about Traktor, nor do I have a copy handy) - in the Traktor MIDI device settings, is there anything related to refrshing, reloading, resynching, rescanning, redetecting etc MIDI devices? Or can you perhaps "remove" and then re-add the midifighter? Perhaps unplug MF, tell traktor to remove or delete it, then plug it in again to let Traktor redetect?

I will take a look at my brothers copy over the weekend when I get a chance and see, but if you can take a look it may speed things up
Danae Dumler
12.05.2011		Bump! I Wonder if the new firmware will help with this in any way?
Danae Dumler
09.05.2011
Originally Posted by Fatlimey
The problem would be cached USB descriptors. To speed up waking from sleep and boot times, modern Operating Systems cache a copy of the most recent USB descriptor for each deviceand only re-read them if they believe something has changed. Try unplugging your devices and putting them into a different port, failing that there are development tools to flush USB descriptors.
Does Traktor cache them or just the OS? I tried this and no dice -- the midifighter appears as "MF-BEER" in the System Profile, so I know the OS knows it (that's what I changed the name to), but Traktor still only reports that "Midifighter (Midifighter)" is connected when I look in the controller manager. This is true even if I unplug all other midi controllers and switch out the USB port the midifighter is plugged into.

I'm running TSP 1.2.7 by the way, but when I open TSP 2.0.1 I have the same exact result.
robert chanda
10.05.2011
Originally Posted by djproben
In Audio Midi settings it looks the same as it did before. No I couldn't find my changed name anywhere but maybe there's somewhere else to look on Mac?

--Update - I just checked the System Profiler and indeed the USB name for my Midifighter has changed! So I did something right. Now we just gotta figure out why Traktor sees both midifighters as the same name?
The problem would be cached USB descriptors. To speed up waking from sleep and boot times, modern Operating Systems cache a copy of the most recent USB descriptor for each deviceand only re-read them if they believe something has changed. Try unplugging your devices and putting them into a different port, failing that there are development tools to flush USB descriptors.
Danae Dumler
08.05.2011		In Audio Midi settings it looks the same as it did before. No I couldn't find my changed name anywhere but maybe there's somewhere else to look on Mac?

--Update - I just checked the System Profiler and indeed the USB name for my Midifighter has changed! So I did something right. Now we just gotta figure out why Traktor sees both midifighters as the same name?
Kimberly Lewark
08.05.2011		What does it show up as in device manager (on windows; whatever the mac equivalent is on mac) and what does it come up as in Traktor?

That is, does the firmware change the text name at all (but is still treated as if it weren't different) or is the name still the same?
Danae Dumler
08.05.2011		So for the last couple hours I have been working on this to no avail. Changed the name of the Midifighter in the file usb_descriptors.c and compiled the hex file and then flashed the Midifighter using dfu programmer. Everything worked, and I successfully flashed with the new hexfile, but the Midifighter's name has not changed in the Traktor Controller Manager. Is there anyone who can figure out why this didn't work? I looked through the code and didn't see any other logical place to change the name of the unit.

Here's my hex file if anyone wants to try it: http://turntablepoetry.com/midifighter.hex
Danae Dumler
28.04.2011
Originally Posted by Citizen_Insane
@djproben: thanks for the quick reply to my PM. I'll test your work around, I don't have TP2 so for all we know the issue might be solved with the upgrade lol.

Unfortunately I lack the coding experience necessary for things such as messing about with the source code of the MF. Maybe we should just ask someone such as Midi Fidler, he's might know how Ean's got that stuff working.

EDIT: The workaround is working for me, very nice believeing there. Now I can actually use all of my controllers
Glad to hear it actually works! I'm pretty sure I can handle the source code recompile when I get the chance to mess with it so I'll try to make it a priority; I actually have 3 midifighters but have never used more than 2 at a time because of this problem and I don't even use 2 most of the time because I can't be arsed to mess with it. It's an annoying workaround because if you have a lot of controllers traktor is really slow opening the preferences; all said and done it adds about 5 minutes and a bunch of annoying clicky-clicks to Traktor setup. Doesnt seem like a lot but it gets old after a while, especially when you've got the sound guy waiting on you to play something so he can do his sound check and then go smoke a joint.

If I'm successful in recompiling I'll post the file!
Marguerite Salsedo
28.04.2011		@djproben: thanks for the quick reply to my PM. I'll test your work around, I don't have TP2 so for all we know the issue might be solved with the upgrade lol.

Unfortunately I lack the coding experience necessary for things such as messing about with the source code of the MF. Maybe we should just ask someone such as Midi Fidler, he's might know how Ean's got that stuff working.

EDIT: The workaround is working for me, very nice believeing there. Now I can actually use all of my controllers
Danae Dumler
28.04.2011		My solution to this problem is just a workaround and I haven't tried it in TSP2 yet because, well, I'm still having problems getting TSP2 working properly But what I do is kind of tedious -- when I open Traktor I open the controller manager and re-select each midifighter port on its own mapping each time. Then I try to remember to set them to n/a every time I shut traktor down. This step isn't necessary but it makes things easier if you remember it. Basically traktor is going to forget which midifighter is which during each restart due to the name being the same. Changing the name in Audio MIDI settings doesn't do jack about this.

However I also have been planning on another solution but I haven't had time to try it yet -- it's to recompile the firmware for one of the midifighters to change its name. I will work on this when I get the chance but it may not be for a week or two ... the discussion about it is here if anyone wants to try it out before I get to it -- http://www.djranking s.com/community /showthread.php?t=28214 -- and DJKeyWee refers to an MF sticky thread that will be helpful as well. I went through the source code and I'm pretty sure what I posted there is the right thing to change in order to get the midifighter to announce itself by a different name.
Marguerite Salsedo
28.04.2011
Originally Posted by HerbStrike
boooo check the connections you got it going through a hub? powered? try reinstalling your mapping, and changing the ports again?
Tried all of those... no dice. Gonna try re-flashing the firmware.

EDIT: Flashed to the latest firmware... original MF is working again... now to test with the other.

EDIT 2: And now the custom MF is doing what the original MF was doing... time to re-flash it too.... and it works again... I feel like I'm going in circles...

Pretty sure at this point it has to do with traktor recognizing them as the same device and not the in/out routing, I appear to have gotten things back to their original state of not working.
Estefana Musfeldt
28.04.2011		boooo check the connections you got it going through a hub? powered? try reinstalling your mapping, and changing the ports again?
Marguerite Salsedo
28.04.2011		Hate to say this but I had it working for about 30 seconds... now Traktor refuses to pick up my original Midi Fighter as being plugged in AT ALL.
in port and out ports appear at "n/a:Midifighter"
My computer isn't even picking it up at a MIDI device anymore
Estefana Musfeldt
28.04.2011		thats usually the issue with conflicting device's glad i could be of service enjoy
Marguerite Salsedo
28.04.2011
Originally Posted by HerbStrike
you checked the in and out port list see if it see's two mf's
Yay! In out list sorted it. They were both under the same Midi Fighter listing... thanks

EDIT: Oh wait... trouble is still a brewin'
Estefana Musfeldt
29.04.2011		you checked the in and out port list see if it see's two mf's

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