Midi-fighter midi signals
Midi-fighter midi signals Posted on: 07.08.2011 by Lavenia Bencze Is there anywere I can find a detailed explanation on what midi messages the buttons on the midifighter sends in 4 banks mode.The reason I ask is that I have been looking at the TSI for instant gratification, and it seams to have more then 12 different midi note on/off messages for each bank. How can that be done with 4 bank buttons and 12 other buttons? Best Regards DJJJ BTK INC | |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 28.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJJJ
also i released a version of my midimasher the other week that emulated the midifighter in 4banks mode on an lpd8 - works pretty well. ofc even cooler if u have two lpd8's... then can be pushed together and work without needing to switch banks. |
| Lavenia Bencze 26.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by MiL0
It is made by making a command for effect amount with interaction mode "dec" (decrese) and then ticking auto repeat. |
| Kimberly Lewark 22.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by cymptom
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| Kimberly Lewark 21.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by cymptom
I assume that's what DJJJ is using. The latest version of the firmware definitely handles the combos internally (combos.c is the source file). |
| Kimberly Lewark 21.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJJJ
Also, the combos were implemented as modifiers in older versions of the IG mapping, but a few months back, they were moved to the firmware, presumably to free up modifiers in the mapping or because it was faster or something. |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by midifidler
Sorry, I'm having some trouble understanding. What you're saying is that there is actually a separate note generated by the detection of the super combo? I was under the impression that the combo was triggered by a modifier that increases in value as you move throughout the E2 F2 F#2 G2 sequence of notes. Why wouldn't configuring four pads on the LPD8 to trigger the same notes used the trigger the combo on the midifighter (E2 F2 F#2 G2) make it trigger the combo in the same way? Aside from the sequence of notes E2 F2 F#2 G2 (in order and without release) being sent to Traktor, is there something else needed to trigger the combo? |
| Chasidy Heckenbach 28.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJJJ
also i released a version of my midimasher the other week that emulated the midifighter in 4banks mode on an lpd8 - works pretty well. ofc even cooler if u have two lpd8's... then can be pushed together and work without needing to switch banks. |
| Jodi Lacerra 26.09.2011 | Ok, just to clarify things (although I believe it has probably been explained already) here is what is going on with the Instant Grat mapping and the Supercombos. The original Instant Gratification mapping (http://www.djranking s.com/community /showthread.php?t=29351) is the first time that the idea of Supercombos was brought up and I figured out a way to emulate specific button combinations which result in a "Supercombo" effect being triggered. This was all accomplished within the MIDI mapping but it took basically every possible modifier state to do so. The Instant Gratification mapping has not been updated to changed the Supercombos to be triggered via firmware. Starting with the MF Pro mappings, the "Supercombos" were changed from being activated via modifiers to being activated via firmware. This firmware change was about when the first Midi Fighter update software was released (not the new config tool). This free'ed up a lot of modifiers in MIDI mapping and made it so each Supercombo's effects were triggered by a single MIDI note that gets sent out when the Supercombo is correctly triggered. The Supercombos that are now in the firmware are triggered in the same manner as they were in the original Instant Grat mapping. Some people may be getting confused because even when a Supercombo is triggered by a single MIDI note (like in the new firmware for the MF Pro mappings), there are several MIDI input commands in the mapping which create the "Supercombo" effect sound. I am not going to explain how those all work; but for example, the all beatmasher transpose sweep effect is accomplished by decreasing the rate of the effect based on how long you hold down the Supercombo (which technically is multiple auto repeating Dec effect amount commands of various sizes). I hope this clarifies things for everyone. In summary, the original Instant Grat mapping uses modifiers to trigger the Supercombos, in some some newer mappings (like the MF Pro) the combos are triggered via special Supercombo MIDI notes which are in the firmware. |
| Lavenia Bencze 26.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by MiL0
It is made by making a command for effect amount with interaction mode "dec" (decrese) and then ticking auto repeat. |
| Adolf Hit 25.09.2011 | Ok since Chris never responded, initially the super combos where done as part of the mapping, we then added these into the firmware however the current MF Classic IG mapping still uses the mapping implementation whereas the Pro mappings use the firmware implementation. So you should be able to remap any Midi controller to work with the original IG mapping. You can see what notes the firmware implementation of the super combos sends out by using MIDI-OX Sorry - I thought the Classic IG mapping was now also using the firmware implementation. |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 26.09.2011 | thanks for the pm it still doesn't really explain how, for example, the beatmasher supercombo works. When you press all 4 buttons down, it triggers the beatmasher supercombo which causes the transpose pitch to sweep down. The fact that it sweeps down means there must be more to the supercombo than just sending an additional midi CC#. any thoughts? or am I horribly misunderstanding how it all works...! |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 23.09.2011 | what I'm wondering is if the supercombos send a completely different midi cc when all 4 arcade buttons are pressed down... I guess I'll have to go through the code and check for myself! (unless you wanna pm me...) |
| Kimberly Lewark 22.09.2011 | I don't have to, I'm familiar enough with the code to know what they are. I won't say since Midifidler said it was a secret but you can check for yourself: midifighter.c lines 742 through 781 shows the MIDI notes and combo.c shows the combos. Also, you can see the MIDI map (minus the combos) that the Midifighters use here. So you can see where the combos fit in. |
| Arcelia Siebeneck 22.09.2011 | would be interesting to see what a midifighter outputs in midi when a supercombo is activated. anyone want to hook up a midifighter to midiox? |
| Kimberly Lewark 22.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by cymptom
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| Keith Dysart 22.09.2011 | Yeah... whether or not the midifighter is sending out these mystery notes is, well, a mystery to me, but in any case they don't seem to have any corresponding mapping in the 1.0.2 or 1.0.3 tsi. For the time being, the mystery note issue is irrelevant. It's possible that the newest firmware added the ability for the midifighter to send out these mystery notes and a mapping that makes use of them just hasn't been released yet. |
| Lavenia Bencze 22.09.2011 | What you say isn't true. I am using the one from april labelled 1.03. I haven't found all super combos (actully just the one in the presentation video), but I have looked through the mapping and only the 52 notes I mentioned have been mapped to functions, so what you say about mystery combo notes doesn't make any sense: Jeppe Johansen |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 | That would be the 1.0.2 mapping released in February, right? That's the one I've been using. I don't know about the others, but the beatmasher supercombo won't work. I'm wondering if it's just a problem innate to the LPD8. I believe it has something to do with the modifier 5 increases not working correctly. If I press any one of the beatmasher buttons, modifier 5 increases to one. But if I press another beatmasher button while holding that one, modifier 5 reverts to 0. |
| Kimberly Lewark 21.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by cymptom
I assume that's what DJJJ is using. The latest version of the firmware definitely handles the combos internally (combos.c is the source file). |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 | If the combos are triggered by something in the firmware unique to the midifighter, then a) How is it that DJJJ is able to use them on his launchpad?; and b) where might I find older versions of the IG mapping? |
| Kimberly Lewark 21.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJJJ
Also, the combos were implemented as modifiers in older versions of the IG mapping, but a few months back, they were moved to the firmware, presumably to free up modifiers in the mapping or because it was faster or something. |
| Adolf Hit 21.09.2011 | There are multiple implementations of the IG mapping, Ive forwarded this thread to Chris, who created the IG mapping, he will be able to provide greater detail. |
| Lavenia Bencze 21.09.2011 | I can't find what you say true. I have downloaded the TSI for instant gratification and there are only commands for c-1-D#-1 + c2-B5, so if the midifigter sends a mystery note, then what good does it do if it is not mapped to anything? |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by midifidler
Sorry, I'm having some trouble understanding. What you're saying is that there is actually a separate note generated by the detection of the super combo? I was under the impression that the combo was triggered by a modifier that increases in value as you move throughout the E2 F2 F#2 G2 sequence of notes. Why wouldn't configuring four pads on the LPD8 to trigger the same notes used the trigger the combo on the midifighter (E2 F2 F#2 G2) make it trigger the combo in the same way? Aside from the sequence of notes E2 F2 F#2 G2 (in order and without release) being sent to Traktor, is there something else needed to trigger the combo? |
| Adolf Hit 21.09.2011 | Why would it go "bananas" ? The software will only respond to a note if it is mapped to do so, so if you have not mapped any function to the note generated by the super combo nothing will happen when you trigger that super combo. My point earlier was that your map as described earlier in this thread is not complete. The super combo notes are generated by the midi fighter when it detects the correct sequence of buttons to generate a given super combo. These combos are supposed to be a fun "secret" feature so Im not going to tell you what they are - however you should be able to find them easily on this community . Any way here is a document which describes the MIDI map for the MF Classic. Midi Fighter Classic MIDI Map - no it does not tell you what the super combos are, or the notes generated by them. |
| Lavenia Bencze 21.09.2011 | That sounds crazy. First of all. All notes in the instant gratification mapping is covered by the 52 notes i specified. Secondly that would mean that if I bought a midifighter and made a costum mapping for it, then whenever I accidently hit a super combo, my midifighter would go bananas and do crazy stuff. Please explain what notes it sends. If what you say is true, then 4 banks mode is totally useless to all other mappings besides instant gratification. Jeppe Johansen |
| Adolf Hit 21.09.2011 | Hey Cymptom. The super combos are triggered by specific notes which are generated by the Midi Fighter when they detect a super combo sequence. So if you are trying to map another controller to those events then you will need to map to the note generated by the detection of the super combo, not the keys used in the super combo |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 | Ohh... ok. Sorry - total amateur here. Had to make some compromises for the LPD8. I got rid of one of the gaters, one of the sweeps, the delay (maybe try to combine with the reverb later), and the echo out (I'll map it elsewhere or to one of the knobs if I can.) The LPD8 actually has 4 different banks already so that's not a problem. So far, everything seems to work fine except for the beatmasher supercombo. |
| Lavenia Bencze 21.09.2011 | That is how Traktor interprets it. most of my gear
also calls it one octave different. Tell me. How will you create instant gratification on a LPD8 when it only has 8 pads? |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 | ...yeah, you're right. This is weird... my LPD8 is sending midi signals to Traktor that are an octave higher than I what I have programmed in the Akai editor... |
| Lavenia Bencze 21.09.2011 | I have mapped my launchpad with midikatapult to the values i represent and my beatmasher super combo works fine. If you look inside the mapping layout you will see that the values i give reperesent it right. Jeppe Johansen |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 | I messed around with mapping those values to my LPD8 for two hours or so and wasn't able to get them to work. Then I noticed that they're actually different from the values in this post: http://www.djranking
s.com/community
/sho...1&postcount=23 Those values, taken from the firmware source code, are working fine, only the beatmasher supercombo won't work for some reason. Each of the beatmasher buttons seem to cancel each other out -- I can't press them all simultaneously. Oh well, that's a separate thread... |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 | That's a huge help, thanks! |
| Lavenia Bencze 21.09.2011 | I found it. The reason is proberbly that it was instant gratification mapping that runs in 4 banks mode. so the layout is like this Midi channel 3 Top row of buttons switches banks Bank A Bank B Bank C Bank D The banks are. Bank A G#2 A2 A#2 B2 E2 F2 F#2 G2 C2 C#2 D2 D#2 Bank B G#3 A3 A#3 B3 E3 F3 F#3 G3 C3 C#3 D3 D#3 Bank C G#4 A4 A#4 B4 E4 F4 F#4 G4 C4 C#4 D4 D#4 Bank D G#5 A5 A#5 B5 E5 F5 F#5 G5 C5 C#5 D5 D#5 On top of that. it transmits a note when you press the bank button of the active bank. And theese notes are. C-1 C#-1 D-1 D#-1 This means that if you run a 4 banks mapping on a device other then midifighter it will need 4 x 13 buttons. Best Regards Jeppe |
| Keith Dysart 21.09.2011 | Same question here -- was looking at the TSI and saw mappings to quite a few notes that aren't on this map... |
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