Super Faders

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Super Faders
Posted on: 28.12.2010 by Gilma Marchini
Super Fader support was added... There's a lot of talk about it... But how do I do it? Maybe I'm ignorant and just missing a link, but I can't seem to find anything on how to actually do it.

I get the concept, but I don't get where adding in support comes in... Do I hook up the faders and just map them to some presets in the MF tsi?
Chasidy Heckenbach
05.10.2011
Originally Posted by Fatlimey
Good call. This is what the Bome's registers are for, storing a copy of the previous CC value so you can test whether the current CC has crossed the dividing line so you can send a zero if that is the case.
sure. i haven't looked into bomes too much since writing my own midimasher. buying bomes would have been cheaper than the hours and hours i've spent on my own code i guess, but probably not as much fun
robert chanda
05.10.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
most devices don't send out every value from 0 to 127 tho if u were to move it quickly from min to max and vice versa... so i presume some extra cunningness would be needed when going from max to min to ensure that a val of 0 gets sent out for CC2 at the mid way point. i believe that's the only gotcha...?

Good call. This is what the Bome's registers are for, storing a copy of the previous CC value so you can test whether the current CC has crossed the dividing line so you can send a zero if that is the case.
Chasidy Heckenbach
05.10.2011
Originally Posted by Fatlimey
Really? This is exactly the kind of fundamental thing Bome's was invented for. You set up four rules to read a single input CC and each rule outputs part of the Super Fader result. All rules run at the same time, voila a super fader.

A quick read of TFM might help refresh your memory on how Bome's works.
most devices don't send out every value from 0 to 127 tho if u were to move it quickly from min to max and vice versa... so i presume some extra cunningness would be needed when going from max to min to ensure that a val of 0 gets sent out for CC2 at the mid way point. i believe that's the only gotcha...?
robert chanda
05.10.2011
Originally Posted by huss
Yes and how could we achieve this in bomes midi translator classic?

As in what setting would i need to use if i was mapping my Hercules RMX to do this?

Really? This is exactly the kind of fundamental thing Bome's was invented for. You set up four rules to read a single input CC and each rule outputs part of the Super Fader result. All rules run at the same time, voila a super fader.

A quick read of TFM might help refresh your memory on how Bome's works.
Leeanna Ayla
06.01.2011
Originally Posted by parkaust
so a knob or fader of any sort will work and the mid fighter board is where the "super" parts comes in? is it the board that makes it have four midi commands?

Yes and yes.
robert chanda
03.01.2011
Originally Posted by djstevievano
So I read the diagram and explanation. I understand how it works, but do you need a special/specific kind of fader or pot knob? Or could you use anything off the shelf and it would work? I feel the tinkering bug coming back. Thanks in advance.

Any kind of linear potentiometer will work (i.e. not a rotary encoder and not a logarithmic potentiometer). We've used 10K and 100K pots both with good results. You're using it as a voltage divider so the resistance isn't too important, and you only need a single wiper.
Gilma Marchini
28.12.2010
Originally Posted by Fatlimey
The Super Faders are designed to be assignable using "MIDI Learn". Essentially there are four messages that each fader produces:

Code:
|0---------------64-------------127| CC 1
|                 0------64-----127| CC 2
|off|on----------------------------| note A
|off----------------------------|on| note B
Reading from left to right, the first CC increases from 0 to 127 in the normal way. Once you reach the halfway mark the Smart Fader will send out two messages at once:

[CC1, CC2]

and if you are using MIDI Learn on Ableton or Traktor the learn function will recognize CC2 as it's the most recently sent message. When you ht the top of the range the Smart Fader will send out:

[ CC1, CC2, NoteB]

in that order. MIDI Learn will remember NoteB as that's the most recently sent message. At the bottom of the range the Smart Fader sends

[CC1, NoteA]

so MIDI Learn will recognize NoteA.

So long as you are aware of where in the range you are producing messages while you're using MIDI Learn you can completely map an entire Smart Fader without having to resort to manually inputting MIDI values.

As for what to use these notes for, generally NoteA is useful for turning on and off Effects so the bottom of the CC range disables an effect entirely. NoteB is useful for turning on "hold" effects so that moving a CC to the top of the range initiates, say, a reverb hold. The main CC value should be your main effect like Reverb or Echo and the second CC would be something like Flange or Overdrive that will push the normal effect into interesting directions as you play with the range.


That's the theory, try it out with your own mappings.
^That's what I needed. Thanks ;D
Gilma Marchini
28.12.2010		Super Fader support was added... There's a lot of talk about it... But how do I do it? Maybe I'm ignorant and just missing a link, but I can't seem to find anything on how to actually do it.

I get the concept, but I don't get where adding in support comes in... Do I hook up the faders and just map them to some presets in the MF tsi?
Chasidy Heckenbach
05.10.2011
Originally Posted by Fatlimey
Good call. This is what the Bome's registers are for, storing a copy of the previous CC value so you can test whether the current CC has crossed the dividing line so you can send a zero if that is the case.
sure. i haven't looked into bomes too much since writing my own midimasher. buying bomes would have been cheaper than the hours and hours i've spent on my own code i guess, but probably not as much fun
robert chanda
05.10.2011
Originally Posted by zestoi
most devices don't send out every value from 0 to 127 tho if u were to move it quickly from min to max and vice versa... so i presume some extra cunningness would be needed when going from max to min to ensure that a val of 0 gets sent out for CC2 at the mid way point. i believe that's the only gotcha...?

Good call. This is what the Bome's registers are for, storing a copy of the previous CC value so you can test whether the current CC has crossed the dividing line so you can send a zero if that is the case.
Chasidy Heckenbach
05.10.2011
Originally Posted by Fatlimey
Really? This is exactly the kind of fundamental thing Bome's was invented for. You set up four rules to read a single input CC and each rule outputs part of the Super Fader result. All rules run at the same time, voila a super fader.

A quick read of TFM might help refresh your memory on how Bome's works.
most devices don't send out every value from 0 to 127 tho if u were to move it quickly from min to max and vice versa... so i presume some extra cunningness would be needed when going from max to min to ensure that a val of 0 gets sent out for CC2 at the mid way point. i believe that's the only gotcha...?
robert chanda
05.10.2011
Originally Posted by huss
Yes and how could we achieve this in bomes midi translator classic?

As in what setting would i need to use if i was mapping my Hercules RMX to do this?

Really? This is exactly the kind of fundamental thing Bome's was invented for. You set up four rules to read a single input CC and each rule outputs part of the Super Fader result. All rules run at the same time, voila a super fader.

A quick read of TFM might help refresh your memory on how Bome's works.
Colin Sobin
04.10.2011		Yes and how could we achieve this in bomes midi translator classic?

As in what setting would i need to use if i was mapping my Hercules RMX to do this?
Leeanna Ayla
06.01.2011
Originally Posted by parkaust
so a knob or fader of any sort will work and the mid fighter board is where the "super" parts comes in? is it the board that makes it have four midi commands?

Yes and yes.
Hyo Auricchio
06.01.2011		so a knob or fader of any sort will work and the mid fighter board is where the "super" parts comes in? is it the board that makes it have four midi commands?
robert chanda
06.01.2011		The knobs on a Midifighter are programmed to generate multiple MIDI events when you move them, where a normal device will only generate a single event. A way around thsi is to use MIDI mapping software like Bome's MIDI Translator (http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator) that will sit between the device and your software and translate the single CC event from your hardware into multiple MIDI events for your software to use.
Jeanne Decorte
04.01.2011		I was tryining to get one of the knobs on my lpd8 to work as a superfader, is that possible?
Leeanna Ayla
03.01.2011		Any benefit to either 10K or 100K?
robert chanda
03.01.2011
Originally Posted by djstevievano
So I read the diagram and explanation. I understand how it works, but do you need a special/specific kind of fader or pot knob? Or could you use anything off the shelf and it would work? I feel the tinkering bug coming back. Thanks in advance.

Any kind of linear potentiometer will work (i.e. not a rotary encoder and not a logarithmic potentiometer). We've used 10K and 100K pots both with good results. You're using it as a voltage divider so the resistance isn't too important, and you only need a single wiper.
Deirdre Jandres
03.01.2011		So I read the diagram and explanation. I understand how it works, but do you need a special/specific kind of fader or pot knob? Or could you use anything off the shelf and it would work? I feel the tinkering bug coming back. Thanks in advance.
Gilma Marchini
28.12.2010
Originally Posted by Fatlimey
The Super Faders are designed to be assignable using "MIDI Learn". Essentially there are four messages that each fader produces:

Code:
|0---------------64-------------127| CC 1
|                 0------64-----127| CC 2
|off|on----------------------------| note A
|off----------------------------|on| note B
Reading from left to right, the first CC increases from 0 to 127 in the normal way. Once you reach the halfway mark the Smart Fader will send out two messages at once:

[CC1, CC2]

and if you are using MIDI Learn on Ableton or Traktor the learn function will recognize CC2 as it's the most recently sent message. When you ht the top of the range the Smart Fader will send out:

[ CC1, CC2, NoteB]

in that order. MIDI Learn will remember NoteB as that's the most recently sent message. At the bottom of the range the Smart Fader sends

[CC1, NoteA]

so MIDI Learn will recognize NoteA.

So long as you are aware of where in the range you are producing messages while you're using MIDI Learn you can completely map an entire Smart Fader without having to resort to manually inputting MIDI values.

As for what to use these notes for, generally NoteA is useful for turning on and off Effects so the bottom of the CC range disables an effect entirely. NoteB is useful for turning on "hold" effects so that moving a CC to the top of the range initiates, say, a reverb hold. The main CC value should be your main effect like Reverb or Echo and the second CC would be something like Flange or Overdrive that will push the normal effect into interesting directions as you play with the range.


That's the theory, try it out with your own mappings.
^That's what I needed. Thanks ;D
robert chanda
28.12.2010		The Super Faders are designed to be assignable using "MIDI Learn". Essentially there are four messages that each fader produces:

Code:
|0---------------64-------------127| CC 1
|                 0------64-----127| CC 2
|off|on----------------------------| note A
|off----------------------------|on| note B
Reading from left to right, the first CC increases from 0 to 127 in the normal way. Once you reach the halfway mark the Smart Fader will send out two messages at once:

[CC1, CC2]

and if you are using MIDI Learn on Ableton or Traktor the learn function will recognize CC2 as it's the most recently sent message. When you ht the top of the range the Smart Fader will send out:

[ CC1, CC2, NoteB]

in that order. MIDI Learn will remember NoteB as that's the most recently sent message. At the bottom of the range the Smart Fader sends

[CC1, NoteA]

so MIDI Learn will recognize NoteA.

So long as you are aware of where in the range you are producing messages while you're using MIDI Learn you can completely map an entire Smart Fader without having to resort to manually inputting MIDI values.

As for what to use these notes for, generally NoteA is useful for turning on and off Effects so the bottom of the CC range disables an effect entirely. NoteB is useful for turning on "hold" effects so that moving a CC to the top of the range initiates, say, a reverb hold. The main CC value should be your main effect like Reverb or Echo and the second CC would be something like Flange or Overdrive that will push the normal effect into interesting directions as you play with the range.


That's the theory, try it out with your own mappings.
Leeanna Ayla
28.12.2010		This is basically how it's done. The new firmware is what enables the super fader so when you add the fader to you're Midi Fighter and update the firmware the fader will have the three notes instead of one.

http://www.djranking s.com/2010/02/0...n-midi-crisis/

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