Techno/minimal looping style of djing a la Richie Hawtin et al
Techno/minimal looping style of djing a la Richie Hawtin et al Posted on: 03.01.2013 by Loyce Mekonen So I've been wanting to get into a much more dynamic/creative way of dj'ing, while creating an atmosphere and what not. Pretty much like Richie Hawtin, Joris Voorn, and other guys do it. Except that I try and try and I just can't manage to play a set which evolves... Whenever I try to use loops and stuff I just end up with something monotonous instead of being able to create that dynamic feeling. Either I just don't know how to create breaks or I just don't know how to time my drops or pretty much anything... I'm not even sure I'm getting at something with this lol. Thing is... I've tried to find a workflow which would allow me to play such kinds of sets but I just haven't been able to. I've watched the interviews here at DJTT with Loco Dice, Chris Leibing, Bass Kleph and others and they're really helpful regarding insight and ideas, but I just can't make them happen. I know the first thing is to keep it simple, like playing tracks with long mixes and stuff, but I'm trying to push myself from the usual mixing style, but it's just so frustrating really. So, what I would really appreciate from the guys who play this way, are tips and examples of workflows while playing with loops and how to make build ups and break downs.. pretty much the odds and ends of how a set like this would be played. What to have in mind, what to avoid, etc. | |
| Efrain Scharr 09.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by DarioJ
|
| Romelia Stankard 09.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
It's not surprising that there are random key ratings as there is probably no key to analyse for half the tracks.
Originally Posted by AllDay
|
| Loyce Mekonen 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
|
| Daniell Tortora 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
Here's a chart of alternative combos that could work for instance: mixchart.jpg |
| Leeanna Ayla 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
Just because a song is listed as 10B doesn't mean it's 10B or that all parts of it are 10B. I mostly mix in key and have to ignore the MIK keys sometimes. |
| Tera Baragan 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
|
| Loyce Mekonen 16.01.2013 | After taking in consideration this whole thread I believe I kinda managed making something interesting while at the same time keeping it simple. While I don't have anything to show just yet, I believe I'm kinda getting a hold of it. Haven't really prepped neither but I pretty much ended with some kind of decent workflow integrating the F1 as a way of capturing loops and letting them play while freeing my decks (when using an S2, deck real estate becomes important as I pretty much hate shifting to access deck D). So it's almost a deck A to B style mixing but letting parts looped for a long while as some kind of icing on top of the cake while new tracks get mixed in and out. I'm currently listening to a practice session I had yesterday and besides a few excessive FX feedback and one badly triggered loop it sounds quite cool imo (and I have a thing for finding mistakes...). Hopefully I'll have it more ironed out for the next time as to actually post something. Cheers again for all the help in this thread! |
| Efrain Scharr 09.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by DarioJ
|
| Romelia Stankard 09.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
It's not surprising that there are random key ratings as there is probably no key to analyse for half the tracks.
Originally Posted by AllDay
|
| Carli Hedwall 09.01.2013 | A tip I suggest and has helped me a lot is to not worry about time or if a track is about to end. Tech house and Minimal Techno is...well minimal and a slow progression! This crowd is normally accustomed to hearing long drawn out percussion loops. Also the crowd is at times expecting you to experiment. They are a lot more patient then you believe! So whether you're at home or in front of a crowd be at peace knowing you have time play around a bit and come up with something unique. Percussion loops are your best friend. Learn to build your drops, break, or builds around random loops that you choose. Its more of a zone I get into but at time Ill just grab an 4 to 8 bar loop randomly at any part of track playing. This is where the magic happens. I make that loop my bitch! I cant stress that enough. When you loop something make sure you add your touch to it. Add EFX, Cut off a low, mid, or high, mix another loop into it, a snare or hi hat etc.You'll find at time that you build entirely new track or groove just playing around with, lets say, the last 16 bars of a track. A track doesn't have to end cause time is up. Keep it going and spice it up. Keep in mind the groove of your set. Don't go too far off the path. Once youve made your loop and messed it enough with it, move on to a new track. Theres no doubt that guys like Hawtin have this shit down to a science but ALOT of it is improvised on the fly. Youll need learn to be comfortable to enough to break away from the conventional dj standard (ie. intro/outro dj sets) Edit: More on the technical side; I keep my favorite EFXs close by. Delay, Reverb, and Flanger are go to(s) for build ups. Start from 0 and slowly going up on the parameters and you should start getting a feel how your build up may end up. Reverb gives your mix space. Gives stuff atmosphere. Delay can create dramatic sounds. Flanger build tension. 3-4 decks is a must. I was hoping the remix decks in traktor would help with this but I dont like its workflow. Prep work always helps. Ques, Loops, Start points etc. Not only does it give you confidence cause you know how the track is laid out but its also a time saver if you really want to experiment. Sync and snap are a must Quantize helps but sometimes hampers juggling of ques or throwing in snares or hat patterns around. |
| Judi Sissel 09.01.2013 | Sorry to the OP, but thought this might be of some help to others in this thread. I feel into the trap as everyone else with the F1 and have been working on an F1/X1 mapping with a, 3 track deck (with key control) - 1 remix deck (used as a glorified loop recorder) w/ 4 FX assign-ability. X1 = Deck A/B) Basic controls, 4 FX assing-ability, Unit 1 FX, key control (for track decks) - done over the Native mapping F1 = Deck D) Full native remix deck mapping Deck C) Sorry for the crude outline, it was done in paint . VVVVVVV http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...9/F1Layout.jpg The basis of the mapping was to be able to either copy a loop from any deck, duplicate a deck to C, and be able to easily jump to other set loops. Then if need be, be able to capture the loops in the remix decks (4 slot essential mode). This was done over the User mode to retain HID control over the colors. I have to flush out some some bugs on the F1 mapping and finish the X1 side (which probably only 10 commands), but if I get off my lazy butt i'll get it all finished and posted in the mapping section this weekend. |
| Ulysses Vittetoe 09.01.2013 | I don't have a maschine yet, but I mix with a lot of loops using my f1. The trick with that is proper eqing, and when you're mixing in a loop with a lot going on you want to make sure it complements the main track playing well. If you're mixing in some drums or a single sound it's easier though. |
| Georgianna Eurick 09.01.2013 | Til |
| Joetta Zhuk 09.01.2013 | Since I acquired a new setup (external 4 channel mixer) recently I'm also trying to play the same style as mentioned here. I too find it hard to manage, which I believe also has to do with a decent workflow. Still looking for the perfect mapping for my K2 and X1. You have a lot more work to do then simple A to B mixing. I really need to get this technique under control because I really see it can add a lot to the variety in your set. One advise that i can give so far is that eq-ing is key for letting it sound nice. It's a bit stating the obvious, but still very true. Next couple of weeks I'm focusing on this mixing technique, I'll let you hear the results. |
| Monty Strauder 09.01.2013 | Hey Guys! Iam using 2 F1's, first one is remapped as FX-Unit - so i can select FX unit(1,2,3,4) ON for deck a,b,c,d and the Faders Knobs can be used to adjust the FX Paramenters (FX unit 3 &4)... so i got total FX control next to my S4... The other F1 is in Remix mode so i can use it for one shots and loops! Iam using a lot of percussions and Hihat loops (!!!??? same effect like Maschine!!!???) u can also change Pitch and size. other loops i use are famous Beats like Radioslaves Grindhouse and own created oneshoot of old famous 90's tracks (rythmen is da dancer vocal + 92filterlfo + Delay ( 65 - 25 - 1/4 ) |
| Loyce Mekonen 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by LanceBlaise
|
| Daniell Tortora 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
Here's a chart of alternative combos that could work for instance: mixchart.jpg |
| Leeanna Ayla 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
Just because a song is listed as 10B doesn't mean it's 10B or that all parts of it are 10B. I mostly mix in key and have to ignore the MIK keys sometimes. |
| Tera Baragan 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by ThinkAboutIt
|
| Georgianna Eurick 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by MYE
Edit: This one for example: http://www.1001tracklists.com/trackl...011-12-29.html 5A - 10B - 7A - 3A - 8A... I took the keys from BP don't have the MIK |
| Efrain Scharr 08.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by TiagoAndrade
|
| Marva Cupid 08.01.2013 | I am sorry, maybe i am maybe just a lazy, half assed dj but i play mostly with sync and shit and i only do prep when my beatgrids are really off. I do not go and prep loops and cues. I might have the odd cue set here and there, but nothing major. I play alot of techno and tech house, and one of the most important things i believe is the eqs, u really need to carve your sound out and make alot of room, especially when u are playing 3-4 decks +maschine, i hear way to many techno sets which sound like audio on top of audio on top of audio, and tbh it sounds shit. Keep in mind i do have loops in a remix deck triggered by a midifighter so thats prob why i dont set loops. I do all that on the fly to create build ups and breakdowns. Sorry for the shit spelling snd stuff, this was at 3am on my phone |
| Randell Burfeind 08.01.2013 | giving it a listen |
| Tera Baragan 07.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by MYE
Everything else was done really well! way better then I could do. |
| Bunny Sockel 07.01.2013 | This is my techno set which is inspired by hawtin, liebing and all those guys. I used a lot of loops and i used the maschine a lot which really helps to fill in parts that are missing in a track or mix. Also im 99.99% sure that hawtin mixes in key that's what i did in this mix it helps so much everything just fits together when your mixing in key. Click here to see it on Mixcloud |
| Loyce Mekonen 05.01.2013 | Some great tips here so far! A lot of them quite eye opening in different aspects and really give me a place to start off. Thanks a lot to everyone contributing in this thread! Cheers! |
| Leeanna Ayla 05.01.2013 | Prepping is key here, having the loops ready to go and not fidgeting to much with what already sounds good. If you buy ten tracks and then try and play a set without the loops already set in the tracks it will mostly sound like a jumbled mess and not have any cohesion. Prep your tracks when you buy them and then lock them so that you can tell a track is ready at a glance. Doing it this way ensures that there is some consistency in what you're doing. One way to create this cohesion is to pick a few tracks or a set of four or five loops and play those during the whole set. I believe this is mostly what the third deck and Maschine is for the guys you mention. I've never really analyzed the videos to try and figure this out though. Some other thoughts: Don't be afraid to do basic A-B mixing with you're loops adding spice to that. Duplicate A or B into your third deck and play some loops out of it for four or five songs, rinse and repeat. Don't overdo it. Pick loops that might not be full on by themselves, but will compliment what you're doing on the other decks. I use mostly just percussive loops or sounds because easier to keep that going for a longer period of time than full on melodies. |
| Sandie Kristufek 05.01.2013 | I have found that it is easy to fall in to the trap of trying to 'show off' that you have 3-4 decks playing together or maschine playing a clap etc as things start creeping on top of the overall mix. Main thing is to be subtle. |
| Orlando Koldys 04.01.2013 | u got me wrong when i said "learned everything by copying what other djs made in their sets, and then recreate it at home". I see what they do, recreate it with the same songs, and then do the same technique with songs / loops that i like and i believe fits nice. thanks anyway |
| Tera Baragan 04.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by TiagoAndrade
|
| Orlando Koldys 04.01.2013 | I'm sorry, but i've been googling for full sets of deep / tech djs using f1 and i can't seem to find anything good :/ |
| Tera Baragan 04.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by TiagoAndrade
|
| Orlando Koldys 04.01.2013 | Great tips here I feel exactly Pancaker, bored because my sets were simple transitions and frustrated because i cant make samples and loops fit in my dj sets. I always learned everything by copying what other djs made in their sets, and then recreate it at home. Recently I bought a kontrol f1 and i can't seem to find many videos of djs using it in their sets, any tips and videos on how to incorporate f1 in my sets? |
| Romelia Stankard 04.01.2013 | If you've ever watched/listened to any of them play maschine isn't really the center of their set- it's more like some spice thrown on top just to accent and tie things together. It seems like most of them are usually doing 2-3 deck mixing then seems like they will accent it with a channel of the maschine step sequencer to add in some claps or hi hats or the like, but it's usually not complex drum loops all built on maschine and a bunch of micro loops in traktor. They seem to mostly let tracks play and any micro looping of other tracks and stuff on maschine is just to tie things together and honestly a lot of the time it seems it's just to give them something to do up there, not sure how essential it always is to their overall set.... watch how he uses maschine, it's always just adding in 1-2 drum sounds on top of whatever tracks he is mixing in traktor, he is never building whole sets out of it... |
| Loyce Mekonen 04.01.2013 | Great tips so far! Thanks to those who have contributed! Up until now I hadn't thought about prepping since I thought it was usually done on the fly (okay, maybe the pro's do it sometimes with a great deal of practice and previous preparation). I will ask you guys to keep 'em coming and to refer me to some videos maybe? |
| Nikole Resende 04.01.2013 | Volpe's tips are really good. I'd just like to add a few things. As you might have noticed the most important thing is preparation. Decide which tracks you may want to play in full length, and from which ones you will only play short looped sections. In the beginning you may want to try out which loops play togehter well, as it can be hard to build a track from scratch using various loops without preparation. Regarding break downs and built ups: start slowly. Try using only the EQ first: cut the bass and play with the mids/highs. Then start adding other effects. You can also play with the loop length, shortening the loops in the break down to get a roll effect. |
| Margaretta Hebenstreit 04.01.2013 | Trying to this aswell with my setup, and i'm pretty happy with how my sets sound, but of course not even close to any of the pro's sets. Here some tips on how i work: 1: Set at least 5 loops per track (any length from 1 to 32 bars) when loading them into traktor the first time, for example: 1 in the beginning, 2 when the first bass drops in, 3 maybe in the breakdown, 4 with the whole beat incl melody and 5 with just the melody or something like that. 2: eq the loops to sound nice while cueing 3: dont always have them playing at max, play with their volume 4: put effects on the loops like reverb (or i also like the t3 reverb) or normal delays to build tension in the main song. 5: dont let melodies that dont work together overlay 6: trust your ears |
| Bunny Sockel 03.01.2013 | I do the same thing as richie hawtin 3 decks and maschine (i have based my setup around his) i find that you have to be so concentrated on the mix and what you're doing when mixing 3-4 decks. I also have all my loops and cues saved onto each track so i can jump around to different parts quickly. It's hard to remember what you do when you're djing but i find it easier if i just get really into it. Lots of other people will have different ways they do this. |
<< Back to General DiscussionReply