[Traktor] Beatgridding 'floating' songs like Daft Punk - Da Funk

Home :: General Discussion :: [Traktor] Beatgridding 'floating' songs like Daft Punk - Da FunkReply
[Traktor] Beatgridding 'floating' songs like Daft Punk - Da Funk
Posted on: 16.01.2013 by Neoma Picklesimer
Can someone do me a favour and try to beatgrid this oldie Da Funk of Daft Punk?


I’ve tried it a few times and just cant seem to get it. No amount of correction will keep it in sync the whole way.
I placed a few extra Grid Markers in Traktor where it starts to float, but it looks like I dont have enough Cue points to set to keep it on the grid this way...

How do u guys do it with oldies like disco-tunes that werent made with a drum-computer?
Or like this song, where my guess is that the song is speeding up on purpose.

Any advice is welcome.

Btw,
I've checked these 2 tutorials:
http://www.djranking s.com/2009/03/0...n-traktor-pro/

http://www.djranking s.com/2012/04/2...s-eans-method/
Lashawn Maycock
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
Making me feel old, homie...

P.S - that track is an absolute CLASSIC and there are loops a plenty to be used in it! A warped and beatgridded version will bring you hours of fun.
yep, agree with this, bought the album in HMV Luton I believe

and also really like the start of Daniel Davoli's Essential Mix (1996?) with Black Box's 'Everybody' accapella, then Daft Punk's 'Da Funk' drops in, works a treat that (and I've been known to copy this, ahem...).
Noriko Lebowitz
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by johndavid
Perhaps my wording is poor.

1- We've already determined track B is going to be out of phase.
2- While cueing up, and while pushing/pulling using tempo bend listening to the track B we can determine how much out of phase(OUT not IN at least visually because in this case it would be wrong, the track drifts) we need to be for the tracks to sound synced. Make a visual note of the out of phase level on the meter.
3- once we start to play track B we replicate this "out of phase" level by tempo bending the track back to the out of phase level we determined previously, this time using the phase meter as our guideline(and double checking by ear as well as one is never too safe ). (It needs to be 2/3rd of a beat out of phase blah blah blah).

Understood?
I realize it's not direct, but it's faster than having to regrid a track on traktor or warp it in ableton.
just tap it innnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Meridith Betsinger
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by 3heads
I still don't see how the phase meter would be useful with drifting BPMs, because clearly what it displays is based on the beatgrid (what else should it be based on).
Perhaps my wording is poor.

1- We've already determined track B is going to be out of phase.
2- While cueing up, and while pushing/pulling using tempo bend listening to the track B we can determine how much out of phase(OUT not IN at least visually because in this case it would be wrong, the track drifts) we need to use our headphones to determine how far we need to bend to determine what's needed for the tracks to sound synced. Make a visual note of the out of phase level on the meter.
3- once we actually start to play track B we replicate this "out of phase" level by tempo bending the track back to the out of phase level we determined previously, this time using the phase meter as our guideline(and double checking by ear as well as one is never too safe ). (It needs to be 2/3rd of a beat out of phase blah blah blah).

Understood?
I realize it's not direct, but it's faster than having to regrid a track on traktor or warp it in ableton.
Celestine Porebski
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by johndavid
The phase meter can also be used as a visual tool to determine how much you need to be out of phase when you are cueing (aka determining in advance how much out of phase you'll be pushing it at when actually playing the track ).
(Track A playing, cue B, see how out of phase you need to be for it to remain in sync, play B push/pull out of phase to level determined during cue process, fade in, you're synced but not in "phase" (cause the track drifts so nothing you can do about that). This is only a visual tool, your ears do the actual legwork).

The meter is wide for viewing multiple beats ahead and behind.

It's an extremely powerful tool if you now how to work around it.
I still don't see how the phase meter would be useful with drifting BPMs, because clearly what it displays is based on the beatgrid (what else should it be based on).
Meridith Betsinger
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by 3heads
The phase meter would only help if the beatgrids were accurate, so strike that suggestion (apart from that I found the phase meter always to lag behind a bit - so it's more distraction than actual help)
The phase meter can also be used as a visual tool to determine how much you need to be out of phase when you are cueing (aka determining in advance how much out of phase you'll be pushing it at when actually playing the track ).
(Track A playing, cue B, see how out of phase you need to be for it to remain in sync, play B push/pull out of phase to level determined during cue process, fade in, you're synced but not in "phase" (cause the track drifts so nothing you can do about that). This is only a visual tool, your ears do the actual legwork).

The meter is wide for viewing multiple beats ahead and behind.

It's an extremely powerful tool if you now how to work around it.

Originally Posted by bascurtiz
Thanks for all the great feedback and suggestions

I tried to warp the track as an experiment, see picture-attachment also:

warped-dafunk.jpg

Here's what I did:
- Dragged audio-file on Audio Track 1
- Set settings to Hi-Q + Set Warp mode to Complex Pro
- Deleted the warp marker
- Zoomed in to 1st beat / Placed new warp marker / Right-click marker -> Warp From Here (Straight)
- Zoomed in to last beat / Double clicked Pseudo Warp Marker / Shifted tune to sync beat with New Warp Marker

Though, that wasnt helpful enough. Now the tune is in sync with the metronome at the beginning and the end of the song.
In the middle it gets outta sync many times. So I placed a few more markers.
I'm still not satisfied with the end-result.

Am I doing it right though?
more markers, "everywhere" is an absolute if you truly want it synced all the way through.
Neoma Picklesimer
16.01.2013		Thanks for all the great feedback and suggestions

I tried to warp the track as an experiment, see picture-attachment also:

warped-dafunk.jpg

Here's what I did:
- Dragged audio-file on Audio Track 1
- Set settings to Hi-Q + Set Warp mode to Complex Pro
- Deleted the warp marker
- Zoomed in to 1st beat / Placed new warp marker / Right-click marker -> Warp From Here (Straight)
- Zoomed in to last beat / Double clicked Pseudo Warp Marker / Shifted tune to sync beat with New Warp Marker

Though, that wasnt helpful enough. Now the tune is in sync with the metronome at the beginning and the end of the song.
In the middle it gets outta sync many times. So I placed a few more markers.
I'm still not satisfied with the end-result.

Am I doing it right though?
Meridith Betsinger
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by bascurtiz
C- Ok, so nomore BeatSync - Do I have to let go of TempoSync with such tracks aswell?
no no you can still Temposync, but you will have to do manual beat shifting (is that even the term) by nudging the track forwards or backwards with the Tempo bend buttons.
If you want to better keep track of the bending, activate the Phase meter which will get displayed on top of the waveform. With practice you'll get the hang of it and when cueing up a track you'll notice you need to be "this much in or out of phase" using the phase meter ... haha .. cheating :X.
Doing tempo bending only takes a few seconds, and you adjust as you go along, especially with drifting tracks.

In the past (ok ... 2 years ago) I used to bother putting multiple grid points when I had drifting tracks but the audible "jumps" when the tracks arrives at these new points was not worth it to me.


Like everything in technology, compromise, and find what's best for you and your needs.
Neoma Picklesimer
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by johndavid
Completely irrelevant IMO.

I have a fair share of digital tracks (and vinyl as well) that have drifting beats, computers run like clockwork, some older drum machines do not, and instruments played live that's an even whole other matter, it's not the medium it's the source that's the problem not the medium (even if these things can happen).

Either
A- you could warp the track but honestly you would just end up killing the swing of the track.
One common thing I've noticed with tracks that have drifting beats is that they have way more "swing" and someone work better on a mental level as well. Very abstract to put in words.
B- Beatgrid the track like there's no tomorrow(you can put multiple beatgrids in traktor) but considering your issue with not having more cue points, just beatgrids intro, mid and outro.
C- Beatmatch manually . Sync is good, heck I use it a lot, but I always find myself doing manual adjustements shifting the tracks on the fly.
D- Some tracks are just a pain in the arse to deal with. Work at it!

A- Hence I dont wanna warp those wonky tracks. Coz their shuffle will be gone.
B- Great advice actually on the 'intro - mid - outro' section - coz this is where I'd normally would mix the tracks in anyway
C- Ok, so nomore BeatSync - Do I have to let go of TempoSync with such tracks aswell?
D- IKR! Just a few of those gems out there, esp. with older tunes, that are played by drummers, but are classics I wanna wrap in the mix ^
Neoma Picklesimer
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by kooper1980
Not really sure you should be posting the full track in here. Could be seen as a form of pirating.

In answer to your question (and I've not checked the track) if its a digital copy beatgridding shouldn't be a problem. Where did you get the original from? If you bought it digitally then it will have a consistent BPM. The only way it could be difficult to grid would be if you recorded this from vinyl on a cheap turntable. If that is the case then you could try warping it in Abletons first. Then beatgrid in traktor.
The source is the Album CD "Homework" I bought back in the 90's.
I ripped it to an MP3-file, so I could use it digital too.
Meridith Betsinger
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by kooper1980
In answer to your question (and I've not checked the track) if its a digital copy beatgridding shouldn't be a problem. Where did you get the original from? If you bought it digitally then it will have a consistent BPM.
Completely irrelevant IMO.

I have a fair share of digital tracks (and vinyl as well) that have drifting beats, computers run like clockwork, some older drum machines do not, and instruments played live that's an even whole other matter, it's not the medium it's the source that's the problem not the medium (even if these things can happen).

Either
A- you could warp the track but honestly you would just end up killing the swing of the track.
One common thing I've noticed with tracks that have drifting beats is that they have way more "swing" and someone work better on a mental level as well. Very abstract to put in words.
B- Beatgrid the track like there's no tomorrow(you can put multiple beatgrids in traktor) but considering your issue with not having more cue points, just beatgrids intro, mid and outro.
C- Beatmatch manually . Sync is good, heck I use it a lot, but I always find myself doing manual adjustements shifting the tracks on the fly.
D- Some tracks are just a pain in the arse to deal with. Work at it!
Celestine Porebski
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by kooper1980
If you bought it digitally then it will have a consistent BPM.
That's not necessarily true, depends on the source material really. Not sure how it is with "Da Funk" (don't have a digital copy), but I got a bunch of older tunes I bought on Beatport, which most certainly do not have a steady BPM (e.g. Paperclip People - Throw).
Neoma Picklesimer
16.01.2013		Can someone do me a favour and try to beatgrid this oldie Da Funk of Daft Punk?


I’ve tried it a few times and just cant seem to get it. No amount of correction will keep it in sync the whole way.
I placed a few extra Grid Markers in Traktor where it starts to float, but it looks like I dont have enough Cue points to set to keep it on the grid this way...

How do u guys do it with oldies like disco-tunes that werent made with a drum-computer?
Or like this song, where my guess is that the song is speeding up on purpose.

Any advice is welcome.

Btw,
I've checked these 2 tutorials:
http://www.djranking s.com/2009/03/0...n-traktor-pro/

http://www.djranking s.com/2012/04/2...s-eans-method/
Lashawn Maycock
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by Patch
Making me feel old, homie...

P.S - that track is an absolute CLASSIC and there are loops a plenty to be used in it! A warped and beatgridded version will bring you hours of fun.
yep, agree with this, bought the album in HMV Luton I believe

and also really like the start of Daniel Davoli's Essential Mix (1996?) with Black Box's 'Everybody' accapella, then Daft Punk's 'Da Funk' drops in, works a treat that (and I've been known to copy this, ahem...).
Noriko Lebowitz
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by johndavid
Perhaps my wording is poor.

1- We've already determined track B is going to be out of phase.
2- While cueing up, and while pushing/pulling using tempo bend listening to the track B we can determine how much out of phase(OUT not IN at least visually because in this case it would be wrong, the track drifts) we need to be for the tracks to sound synced. Make a visual note of the out of phase level on the meter.
3- once we start to play track B we replicate this "out of phase" level by tempo bending the track back to the out of phase level we determined previously, this time using the phase meter as our guideline(and double checking by ear as well as one is never too safe ). (It needs to be 2/3rd of a beat out of phase blah blah blah).

Understood?
I realize it's not direct, but it's faster than having to regrid a track on traktor or warp it in ableton.
just tap it innnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Meridith Betsinger
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by 3heads
I still don't see how the phase meter would be useful with drifting BPMs, because clearly what it displays is based on the beatgrid (what else should it be based on).
Perhaps my wording is poor.

1- We've already determined track B is going to be out of phase.
2- While cueing up, and while pushing/pulling using tempo bend listening to the track B we can determine how much out of phase(OUT not IN at least visually because in this case it would be wrong, the track drifts) we need to use our headphones to determine how far we need to bend to determine what's needed for the tracks to sound synced. Make a visual note of the out of phase level on the meter.
3- once we actually start to play track B we replicate this "out of phase" level by tempo bending the track back to the out of phase level we determined previously, this time using the phase meter as our guideline(and double checking by ear as well as one is never too safe ). (It needs to be 2/3rd of a beat out of phase blah blah blah).

Understood?
I realize it's not direct, but it's faster than having to regrid a track on traktor or warp it in ableton.
Celestine Porebski
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by johndavid
The phase meter can also be used as a visual tool to determine how much you need to be out of phase when you are cueing (aka determining in advance how much out of phase you'll be pushing it at when actually playing the track ).
(Track A playing, cue B, see how out of phase you need to be for it to remain in sync, play B push/pull out of phase to level determined during cue process, fade in, you're synced but not in "phase" (cause the track drifts so nothing you can do about that). This is only a visual tool, your ears do the actual legwork).

The meter is wide for viewing multiple beats ahead and behind.

It's an extremely powerful tool if you now how to work around it.
I still don't see how the phase meter would be useful with drifting BPMs, because clearly what it displays is based on the beatgrid (what else should it be based on).
Meridith Betsinger
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by 3heads
The phase meter would only help if the beatgrids were accurate, so strike that suggestion (apart from that I found the phase meter always to lag behind a bit - so it's more distraction than actual help)
The phase meter can also be used as a visual tool to determine how much you need to be out of phase when you are cueing (aka determining in advance how much out of phase you'll be pushing it at when actually playing the track ).
(Track A playing, cue B, see how out of phase you need to be for it to remain in sync, play B push/pull out of phase to level determined during cue process, fade in, you're synced but not in "phase" (cause the track drifts so nothing you can do about that). This is only a visual tool, your ears do the actual legwork).

The meter is wide for viewing multiple beats ahead and behind.

It's an extremely powerful tool if you now how to work around it.

Originally Posted by bascurtiz
Thanks for all the great feedback and suggestions

I tried to warp the track as an experiment, see picture-attachment also:

warped-dafunk.jpg

Here's what I did:
- Dragged audio-file on Audio Track 1
- Set settings to Hi-Q + Set Warp mode to Complex Pro
- Deleted the warp marker
- Zoomed in to 1st beat / Placed new warp marker / Right-click marker -> Warp From Here (Straight)
- Zoomed in to last beat / Double clicked Pseudo Warp Marker / Shifted tune to sync beat with New Warp Marker

Though, that wasnt helpful enough. Now the tune is in sync with the metronome at the beginning and the end of the song.
In the middle it gets outta sync many times. So I placed a few more markers.
I'm still not satisfied with the end-result.

Am I doing it right though?
more markers, "everywhere" is an absolute if you truly want it synced all the way through.
Neoma Picklesimer
16.01.2013		Thanks for all the great feedback and suggestions

I tried to warp the track as an experiment, see picture-attachment also:

warped-dafunk.jpg

Here's what I did:
- Dragged audio-file on Audio Track 1
- Set settings to Hi-Q + Set Warp mode to Complex Pro
- Deleted the warp marker
- Zoomed in to 1st beat / Placed new warp marker / Right-click marker -> Warp From Here (Straight)
- Zoomed in to last beat / Double clicked Pseudo Warp Marker / Shifted tune to sync beat with New Warp Marker

Though, that wasnt helpful enough. Now the tune is in sync with the metronome at the beginning and the end of the song.
In the middle it gets outta sync many times. So I placed a few more markers.
I'm still not satisfied with the end-result.

Am I doing it right though?
Celestine Porebski
16.01.2013		The phase meter would only help if the beatgrids were accurate, so strike that suggestion (apart from that I found the phase meter always to lag behind a bit - so it's more distraction than actual help)
Meridith Betsinger
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by bascurtiz
C- Ok, so nomore BeatSync - Do I have to let go of TempoSync with such tracks aswell?
no no you can still Temposync, but you will have to do manual beat shifting (is that even the term) by nudging the track forwards or backwards with the Tempo bend buttons.
If you want to better keep track of the bending, activate the Phase meter which will get displayed on top of the waveform. With practice you'll get the hang of it and when cueing up a track you'll notice you need to be "this much in or out of phase" using the phase meter ... haha .. cheating :X.
Doing tempo bending only takes a few seconds, and you adjust as you go along, especially with drifting tracks.

In the past (ok ... 2 years ago) I used to bother putting multiple grid points when I had drifting tracks but the audible "jumps" when the tracks arrives at these new points was not worth it to me.


Like everything in technology, compromise, and find what's best for you and your needs.
Charline Dye
17.01.2013		For tracks with a lot of tempo drift I will find a spot at the beginning to loop where the grid is tight ( or put a grid marker right at the loop) for a mix in point and do the same where I would mix out of it, but leave the rest to drift.
Noriko Lebowitz
16.01.2013		Place a grid on the first beat and then use the tap function to tap it in. Should do the trick!

Cheers
Brunilda Kora
16.01.2013		[quote="...this oldie Da Funk of Daft Punk?
[/quote]

Making me feel old, homie...

Personally, I'd warp it in Complex Pro mode, render to disc then beatgrid in Traktor. I wouldn't worry too much about losing the swing/shuffle of the original track. 90+% of people won't even hear a difference.

P.S - that track is an absolute CLASSIC and there are loops a plenty to be used in it! A warped and beatgridded version will bring you hours of fun.
Neoma Picklesimer
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by johndavid
Completely irrelevant IMO.

I have a fair share of digital tracks (and vinyl as well) that have drifting beats, computers run like clockwork, some older drum machines do not, and instruments played live that's an even whole other matter, it's not the medium it's the source that's the problem not the medium (even if these things can happen).

Either
A- you could warp the track but honestly you would just end up killing the swing of the track.
One common thing I've noticed with tracks that have drifting beats is that they have way more "swing" and someone work better on a mental level as well. Very abstract to put in words.
B- Beatgrid the track like there's no tomorrow(you can put multiple beatgrids in traktor) but considering your issue with not having more cue points, just beatgrids intro, mid and outro.
C- Beatmatch manually . Sync is good, heck I use it a lot, but I always find myself doing manual adjustements shifting the tracks on the fly.
D- Some tracks are just a pain in the arse to deal with. Work at it!

A- Hence I dont wanna warp those wonky tracks. Coz their shuffle will be gone.
B- Great advice actually on the 'intro - mid - outro' section - coz this is where I'd normally would mix the tracks in anyway
C- Ok, so nomore BeatSync - Do I have to let go of TempoSync with such tracks aswell?
D- IKR! Just a few of those gems out there, esp. with older tunes, that are played by drummers, but are classics I wanna wrap in the mix ^
Neoma Picklesimer
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by kooper1980
Not really sure you should be posting the full track in here. Could be seen as a form of pirating.

In answer to your question (and I've not checked the track) if its a digital copy beatgridding shouldn't be a problem. Where did you get the original from? If you bought it digitally then it will have a consistent BPM. The only way it could be difficult to grid would be if you recorded this from vinyl on a cheap turntable. If that is the case then you could try warping it in Abletons first. Then beatgrid in traktor.
The source is the Album CD "Homework" I bought back in the 90's.
I ripped it to an MP3-file, so I could use it digital too.
Meridith Betsinger
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by kooper1980
In answer to your question (and I've not checked the track) if its a digital copy beatgridding shouldn't be a problem. Where did you get the original from? If you bought it digitally then it will have a consistent BPM.
Completely irrelevant IMO.

I have a fair share of digital tracks (and vinyl as well) that have drifting beats, computers run like clockwork, some older drum machines do not, and instruments played live that's an even whole other matter, it's not the medium it's the source that's the problem not the medium (even if these things can happen).

Either
A- you could warp the track but honestly you would just end up killing the swing of the track.
One common thing I've noticed with tracks that have drifting beats is that they have way more "swing" and someone work better on a mental level as well. Very abstract to put in words.
B- Beatgrid the track like there's no tomorrow(you can put multiple beatgrids in traktor) but considering your issue with not having more cue points, just beatgrids intro, mid and outro.
C- Beatmatch manually . Sync is good, heck I use it a lot, but I always find myself doing manual adjustements shifting the tracks on the fly.
D- Some tracks are just a pain in the arse to deal with. Work at it!
Celestine Porebski
16.01.2013
Originally Posted by kooper1980
If you bought it digitally then it will have a consistent BPM.
That's not necessarily true, depends on the source material really. Not sure how it is with "Da Funk" (don't have a digital copy), but I got a bunch of older tunes I bought on Beatport, which most certainly do not have a steady BPM (e.g. Paperclip People - Throw).
Kristofer Krauel
16.01.2013		Not really sure you should be posting the full track in here. Could be seen as a form of pirating.

In answer to your question (and I've not checked the track) if its a digital copy beatgridding shouldn't be a problem. Where did you get the original from? If you bought it digitally then it will have a consistent BPM. The only way it could be difficult to grid would be if you recorded this from vinyl on a cheap turntable. If that is the case then you could try warping it in Abletons first. Then beatgrid in traktor.

<< Back to General DiscussionReply

Copyright 2012-2023
DJRANKINGS.ORG n.g.o.
Chuo-ku, Osaka, Japan

Created by Ajaxel CMS

Terms & Privacy