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manually beatmatching using a controller?

Home :: General Discussion :: manually beatmatching using a controller?Reply

manually beatmatching using a controller? Posted on: 17.01.2013 by Teodora Blackall hi guys im new to djing.. and bought a controller, pioneer ddj-t1 (after being recommended by my teacher) when i started.. after learning for 3 months now.. i know the fundamental of mixing.. and kind of pissed off that he recommended me a controller.. reason is because i want to be able to manually beatmatch by ear as in cdj (as most clubs now only have cdjs).. with that in mind with my economic situation now.. i couldnt afford to buy another pair of cdjs and mixers.. is there anyway that i can practice my manual beatmatching by using a controller? if so, are the (% of bpms) in controller the same as in cdj? for example if a song in deck a is -0.80% slower than deck b (in traktor) would this to equate the same in cdj (assuming same song)? thanks very much
Cole Maroto 18.01.2013	Originally Posted by dfinch805 if you have a laptop you just close it and it will still let you mix with the laptop closed (at least for me). and so you match with no screen at all and then open it when you believe you're close Most laptops default at going to sleep when you close the lid. I wouldnt recommend changing that, but if you do make sure to have the screen turn off. You can cook your laptop if you let it run too long with the lid closed.
Isa Erik 18.01.2013	Originally Posted by synthet1c Also the Pitch fader is only 7bit midi so not capable of the high resolution of the current generation of controllers.. If I were you I'd sell the Pioneer and get a Reloop Terminal mix 4 as it has a long 14 bit fader great components "better feeling than the pioneer" and better much jogs. for a "CDJ feel" and manual beatmatching I would recommend Denon SC2000 or upcoming Behringer PL-1
Ulysses Vittetoe 18.01.2013	Originally Posted by DJ Sunshine This is a rather common DJ technique called, "being a twat." It's not incredibly necessary, so I'd avoid learning for now. Are you saying beat matching isn't necessary? :what: or being a twat isn't? :P
Danae Dumler 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by dfinch805 if you have a laptop you just close it and it will still let you mix with the laptop closed (at least for me). and so you match with no screen at all and then open it when you believe you're close Don't try this with a Mac, at least not in a live situation.
Isa Erik 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by arminvanbuuren69 thanks for the tips.. actually i love the method u are teaching.. i believe turning off the phase meter is a good way.. its because my eyes are always tempted to see it all the time.. sorry for a stupid question.. but how do i turn off phase meter, waveform and bpm on traktor? is there anyway to do it? so i dont need to cover the screen all the time? you can disable phase meter in Traktor preferences. for BPM & waveform data I'm not sure... the easiest way is to switch Traktor to "browser mode"
Masako Barcalow 18.01.2013	Originally Posted by arminvanbuuren69 one dj came up to me and said "real dj's dont use controllers" This is a rather common DJ technique called, "being a twat." It's not incredibly necessary, so I'd avoid learning for now.
Leota Dolney 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by guiltyblade Here is an easy way to learn. Reverse processes until you get back to the basics. Start with all visual aids on BPM, phase meter, waveforms, whatever. Start with matching the BPM, then close the screen and start trying to beat match the song. Once you believe you are set open the screen and see how far off you are on the phase meter. You will be off a fair amount starting, but it will teach to hear doubling, and bad beats fairly quickly. Once you are comfortable with that, turn off the phase meter and pick two songs without knowing the BPM (Screw up one BPM if you do and match to it). When you believe its on check the bpm. Keep doing this until you believe you got it. Finally go all in and turn off all aids and see how you do. This method helped a lot of other djs learn quickly how to beatmatch. Its what I tell people to do all the time. The tech is there, use it to your advantage to learn. +1 I like this method as it gives you some feedback as to how close or far away you are.
Teodora Blackall 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by mwn11 Yeah, honestly i used to sync first and i believe it helps when you first start out as you can concentrate on things like phrasing, composition and what it sounds like when things are in sync. Its just practice i believe and it takes time. Good luck yes offcourse.. infact i have a frame of songs that ive played in clubs 4x.. using a controller, ive played some of the neatest set on those evening s.. but the only thing now that concerns me is that most dj's know how to use a cdj.. where as tho i lifted the crowd those evening s.. one dj came up to me and said "real dj's dont use controllers" thats what got me believeing that my next goal is so that i can be able to play on a cdj as i can play on a controller.. that would be the ultimate dream thanks all.. but yes im willing to practice.. just like i said before my limitation is that i couldnt afford a cdj.. but ill try to treat my controller as a cdj from now on
Cole Maroto 18.01.2013	Originally Posted by dfinch805 if you have a laptop you just close it and it will still let you mix with the laptop closed (at least for me). and so you match with no screen at all and then open it when you believe you're close Most laptops default at going to sleep when you close the lid. I wouldnt recommend changing that, but if you do make sure to have the screen turn off. You can cook your laptop if you let it run too long with the lid closed.
Libbie Orion 18.01.2013	actually i cant believe we have this topic going for so long lol
Noriko Lebowitz 18.01.2013	Using sync isn't a big deal, but learning to beatmatch is. It's extrememely vital if your readout is wrong or whatever else happens. Here's a great set of tutorials on beatmatching that should get you started... pm me if you have any questions
Jeffrey Akinsanya 18.01.2013	you've got tempo control and you can control cues so i cant see why you cant learn to beatmatch plus its a pioneer unit so i presume the tempo controls should be pretty dann good! my advice would be 1)hide the phase as this will help you learn the makeup of a track rather than the software telling you.. 2) try mixing it up like mixing hiphop with DnB or to totally different genres with different tempo's 3) dont press the sync button! 4) keep at it until its in beat! 5) learn to make corrections... when your playing out you cant hit the reset button! ( so learn to overcome mistakes/mishaps..)
Mellisa Grecu 18.01.2013	why cant you manually beat match with a controller ? just dont look at your laptop ?
Isa Erik 18.01.2013	Originally Posted by synthet1c Also the Pitch fader is only 7bit midi so not capable of the high resolution of the current generation of controllers.. If I were you I'd sell the Pioneer and get a Reloop Terminal mix 4 as it has a long 14 bit fader great components "better feeling than the pioneer" and better much jogs. for a "CDJ feel" and manual beatmatching I would recommend Denon SC2000 or upcoming Behringer PL-1
Ulysses Vittetoe 18.01.2013	Originally Posted by DJ Sunshine This is a rather common DJ technique called, "being a twat." It's not incredibly necessary, so I'd avoid learning for now. Are you saying beat matching isn't necessary? :what: or being a twat isn't? :P
Jonathan Chiuchiolo 17.01.2013	I mapped the DDJ-T1 to VDJ in midi and It is actually really hard to beatmatch using the jogs to nudge because the stupid things don't start sending midi until you reach a certain velocity. this means fine adjustments are close to impossible if you are used to anything else. (It may be different in HID but pioneer wouldn't provide me with the schematic). Also the Pitch fader is only 7bit midi so not capable of the high resolution of the current generation of controllers.. If I were you I'd sell the Pioneer and get a Reloop Terminal mix 4 as it has a long 14 bit fader great components "better feeling than the pioneer" and better much jogs.
Danae Dumler 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by dfinch805 if you have a laptop you just close it and it will still let you mix with the laptop closed (at least for me). and so you match with no screen at all and then open it when you believe you're close Don't try this with a Mac, at least not in a live situation.
Libbie Orion 17.01.2013	dont know if this was mentioned above but also depending on your CONTROLLER See if you can turn OFF Quantize as well as SNAP, That way not only can you do fully manual beatmatching but if you want to set loops youll be setting the IN/OUT manually on those too .
Annalisa Shogren 17.01.2013	If you click just above the track name in Traktor, you can make the deck size smaller which hides the phase meter until you make the track view bigger again. So 3 quick taps on the mouse and the phase meter is revealed again showing you how well you've matched. It's worth noting that you must set the grid marker well for the phase meter to actually represent something which resembles the right thing.
Isa Erik 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by arminvanbuuren69 thanks for the tips.. actually i love the method u are teaching.. i believe turning off the phase meter is a good way.. its because my eyes are always tempted to see it all the time.. sorry for a stupid question.. but how do i turn off phase meter, waveform and bpm on traktor? is there anyway to do it? so i dont need to cover the screen all the time? you can disable phase meter in Traktor preferences. for BPM & waveform data I'm not sure... the easiest way is to switch Traktor to "browser mode"
Michell Wehrmeyer 17.01.2013	if you have a laptop you just close it and it will still let you mix with the laptop closed (at least for me). and so you match with no screen at all and then open it when you believe you're close
Teodora Blackall 18.01.2013	thanks for the tips.. actually i love the method u are teaching.. i believe turning off the phase meter is a good way.. its because my eyes are always tempted to see it all the time.. sorry for a stupid question.. but how do i turn off phase meter, waveform and bpm on traktor? is there anyway to do it? so i dont need to cover the screen all the time?
Masako Barcalow 18.01.2013	Originally Posted by arminvanbuuren69 one dj came up to me and said "real dj's dont use controllers" This is a rather common DJ technique called, "being a twat." It's not incredibly necessary, so I'd avoid learning for now.
Dick Korus 18.01.2013	I personally made a mapping that has an encoder set at relative 25% and with shift at 125% I believe? But to me it is a lot more useful than two buttons. This probably doesn't mention anything about anything, but I find that it helps me out!
Leota Dolney 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by guiltyblade Here is an easy way to learn. Reverse processes until you get back to the basics. Start with all visual aids on BPM, phase meter, waveforms, whatever. Start with matching the BPM, then close the screen and start trying to beat match the song. Once you believe you are set open the screen and see how far off you are on the phase meter. You will be off a fair amount starting, but it will teach to hear doubling, and bad beats fairly quickly. Once you are comfortable with that, turn off the phase meter and pick two songs without knowing the BPM (Screw up one BPM if you do and match to it). When you believe its on check the bpm. Keep doing this until you believe you got it. Finally go all in and turn off all aids and see how you do. This method helped a lot of other djs learn quickly how to beatmatch. Its what I tell people to do all the time. The tech is there, use it to your advantage to learn. +1 I like this method as it gives you some feedback as to how close or far away you are.
Alla Bluemke 17.01.2013	Here is an easy way to learn. Reverse processes until you get back to the basics. Start with all visual aids on BPM, phase meter, waveforms, whatever. Start with matching the BPM, then close the screen and start trying to beat match the song. Once you believe you are set open the screen and see how far off you are on the phase meter. You will be off a fair amount starting, but it will teach to hear doubling, and bad beats fairly quickly. Once you are comfortable with that, turn off the phase meter and pick two songs without knowing the BPM (Screw up one BPM if you do and match to it). When you believe its on check the bpm. Keep doing this until you believe you got it. Finally go all in and turn off all aids and see how you do. This method helped a lot of other djs learn quickly how to beatmatch. Its what I tell people to do all the time. The tech is there, use it to your advantage to learn.
Sonja Roybal 17.01.2013	Make sure you're playing tunes of the same genre. There won't be a lot of variance in the bpm. Turn off sync. Turn off the waveforms. Don't match by site, or the distance of the pitch slider. Match by ear. Beatmatching has to be second nature. You need to not only know that a tune's slipping, but which one is faster and slower. It becomes second nature. Once you start gigging, you're going to run into a whole world of problems and you want to be versatile. You're having problems with the gear. You're playing in a different room, with different sound. Even when it was just two 1200's and a mixer, you'd run into all kinds of problems ie. no monitor, monitors too loud, bad mixer, 20 year old Tech's that have never been recalibrated, needles skipping all over the place. Also, learn to beatmatch in the headphones too. You will play in rooms that sound like total shit from the booth. I just entered the digital world. I was coming from straight vinyl. The first thing I did when I got the S4 was played with just the jog wheels. I wanted to get a feel for them, how hard you need to hold them, how much you need to turn them etc. Don't believe too much. Have fun. For me, music's more feeling than analytical.
Teodora Blackall 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by mwn11 Yeah, honestly i used to sync first and i believe it helps when you first start out as you can concentrate on things like phrasing, composition and what it sounds like when things are in sync. Its just practice i believe and it takes time. Good luck yes offcourse.. infact i have a frame of songs that ive played in clubs 4x.. using a controller, ive played some of the neatest set on those evening s.. but the only thing now that concerns me is that most dj's know how to use a cdj.. where as tho i lifted the crowd those evening s.. one dj came up to me and said "real dj's dont use controllers" thats what got me believeing that my next goal is so that i can be able to play on a cdj as i can play on a controller.. that would be the ultimate dream thanks all.. but yes im willing to practice.. just like i said before my limitation is that i couldnt afford a cdj.. but ill try to treat my controller as a cdj from now on
Arla Seniw 17.01.2013	Yeah, honestly i used to sync first and i believe it helps when you first start out as you can concentrate on things like phrasing, composition and what it sounds like when things are in sync. Its just practice i believe and it takes time. Good luck
Teodora Blackall 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by mwn11 I believe you're making it more complicated than it is. I dont know the length of the DDj-T1's pitch faders or what % adjustment you have them set on. I know on my S4 beatmatching can be harder than on the Technics as the fader is smaller so therefore you decrease the pitch range to make it more accurate. It shouldn't matter too much what the range is or how long the faders are. I personally believe beatmatching is more training your ears and then just having a rough guess of how much you have to speed it or slow it down by. ok i will give this a try then.. thanks all i hope i can learn how to beatmatch quick.. the reason is because i haven't done this for a while
Arla Seniw 17.01.2013	I believe you're making it more complicated than it is. I dont know the length of the DDj-T1's pitch faders or what % adjustment you have them set on. I know on my S4 beatmatching can be harder than on the Technics as the fader is smaller so therefore you decrease the pitch range to make it more accurate. It shouldn't matter too much what the range is or how long the faders are. I personally believe beatmatching is more training your ears and then just having a rough guess of how much you have to speed it or slow it down by.
Palma Hanslip 17.01.2013	I can't answer that to my full ability due to i'm not 100% sure on what Traktor reads out. I own Traktor but i hardly use it.. Sorry about that. But yeah a good DJ knows his tracks inside out really.. When i use CDJ's (which is 99% of the time) the tempo does tend to be what you say 0.80% for every 1BPM. But this is not 100% accurate because you will always have to adjust the jogwheel to catch up or slow down. But it does get you roughly in the correct area. I would never recommend someone learning to beatmatch to use that method though.
Teodora Blackall 17.01.2013	Originally Posted by mwn11 Theres is no reason you cant beatmatch on a controller? Just set the range to 6% or 8% and away you go. Just cause theres a sync button doesn't mean you have to use it. hence why im asking whether the % of cdj and controller are the same.. reason im asking is because just say i am used to the ranges in controllers to beatmatch my songs.. would the range be the same of in the cdj? meaning how far i have to take the pitch slider (%)? if they're the same then i can just learn how to manually beatmatch on my controller and be able to transition to cdj smoothly right?
Arla Seniw 17.01.2013	Theres is no reason you cant beatmatch on a controller? Just set the range to 6% or 8% and away you go. Just cause theres a sync button doesn't mean you have to use it.
Teodora Blackall 17.01.2013	thanks for the reply mate.. yes for the long run i will be practicing where i would totally ignore the readouts.. but for the short term i was believeing of doing what you said last.. which is to use the readout and adjust to suit by ears.. however.. this is where i'm usually confused.. does the bpm readouts on traktor equates to the one on cdj's? for example (when using sync on traktor song a is 0.8% slower than song b) .. can this 0.8% be used on all cdj's also? the reason im asking this is that.. my friend has told me that part of dj's homework is to know your songs (and though he is a very good dj) usually on his cd's he has a note of bpms of his songs and what key's they are in.. so if cdj% and traktor% are the same maybe i can rely on these (bpm notes) meaning i can write on the cd that one song is 129 the other is 130 and so on and so on.. because i wanna be able to mix on a cdj also
Sha Westermeyer 17.01.2013	the best way is to "hide" the information of songs shown on traktor or just dont look at screen and try to beatmatch with your ears i was in the same situation with you when i bought my controller,i used to load two tracks with different bpm and i was trying to match them without watching the information on screen
Palma Hanslip 17.01.2013	Your honest best bet if you want to manually beatmatch is totally ignore the Tempo and BPM readouts and (beating dead horse) "Use your ears". If you get used to mixing using your ears not the readouts in Traktor you will be much stronger at mixing in the long run or even just have the experience of being able to do so. If you are too impatient or lazy to learn how to (properly) manually beatmatch use the BPM read out as a guidance and learn to adjust to suit by ears.

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manually beatmatching using a controller?