Question from a Newb on Mixing technique...
Question from a Newb on Mixing technique... Posted on: 30.01.2013 by Klara Kinnebrew Hello DJTTF,Quick introduction. I started Producing about 4 months ago. I got bit by the bug hard and have been reading and watching videos evening and day. Soon after I realized that you could actually DJ through ableton as well so I got an APC40 around the holidays. That being said, I am very new to all things producing and DJing... Now that that has been said, here is my question. I have been reading as much as I can about the ways you can mix from one song to the other. 99% of the tutorials on mixing all focused on finding 2 songs that you can match the BPM on, finding the right spot in the song and then just working the crossfader. Easy enough it seemed. Then I was actually watching an Ill.Gates youtube video on his APC40 template and he quickly mentions how DJs mix and how they cut either the highs and lows out of one song, the opposite from the other song that will soon be fading in and then once the new song is in and the old one is out the EQs are all back up creating a "bandpass". What is this technique called because I cant find any other mention of it online? Thanks for any help! | |
| Cole Maroto 31.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
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| Rhona Dessler 01.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
^^^I believe this exact arguement is a big reason why Deadmau5, among others where called "button pushers" a few months ago(and the sync button)^^^ But to give a little insight on EQing, or how I look at it, you have to imagine your mix as a 3 shelf book case. This sounds odd but bare with me. Your his at the top, mids in the middle, lows at the bottom. And your mix are the "books". So when one song is playing, say on track A, at full volume with no EQ at all, the book shelf is full of books from left to right. And if your still following me, to mix track B into A here's what I would do in the most basic form. (insert beat match here) I would kill the highs and mids on track B, as we bring the song it this will allow track A's "books" to stay unharmed on the shelf. Next I would slowly take out the Lows in track A, and at the same time slowly bring in track B. This would take some of A's low books off the shelf allowing room for track B's to put on the shelf. If everything is going smoothly you can start to switch out your highs and mids from A to B. Eventually you will just kill A and run with B. Hopefully this makes some sense to you and can help you in some way. I forget where I saw this "theory" from but I wanna say it was on a community here or somewhere online, so credit goes out to someone out there. |
| Layne Koop 31.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
The EQ frequency on a mixer is typically fixed. So a "low" EQ knob will typically center on 80Hz (more or less). Suppose that there is something in the song that you need to remove at 180Hz, or 200Hz. Even a full kill EQ knob will leave "some" of that higher frequency content. A high pass filter can be adjusted in both frequency and slope. This will provide much better remove of the desired content. Any slope that is larger than -24dB/oct will do at least as well as a full kill EQ. |
| Layne Koop 31.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by DJKyleHughes
When a 3 band EQ was the only tool I had available to me, I did use the "low" EQ to remove the bassline from songs for transitions. It felt "OK" at best to me - but that is probably just my own bias. I find that the filter (which is a high/low pass filter) is MUCH more effective at isolating sounds than the EQ. Not every board has a "full kill" EQ. And even with a full kill EQ....the EQ frequencies are fixed. The filter allows the specific "crossover" point between the two songs to be adjusted...and even overlapped when appropriate. Today, I often tweak the EQ on a track...but mostly it is to adjust the sound "within" a track. |
| Noriko Lebowitz 30.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
Start track a start track b Beat match the two tracks(If you use sync you worship the devil and everyone believes you smell bad) cut the bass in track b lower the mids and highs in track b slowly bring in track b with the channel fader Now- increase mids on b, decrease mids on a. (do this for all of them) fade out track A when all of your EQs are even A good way to believe of it is to imagine that the two tracks playing create a certain amount of space, when you decrease something on A, it allows you to increase something on B. and Vice Versa. EDIT* Obviously it's not a standard black and white technique. It varies from track to track but that's the basis of it. |
| Cole Maroto 30.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
most people don't blend songs using the crossfader, but it works for some. i don't even use it when i do standard mixing. |
| Klara Kinnebrew 30.01.2013 | Hello DJTTF, Quick introduction. I started Producing about 4 months ago. I got bit by the bug hard and have been reading and watching videos evening and day. Soon after I realized that you could actually DJ through ableton as well so I got an APC40 around the holidays. That being said, I am very new to all things producing and DJing... Now that that has been said, here is my question. I have been reading as much as I can about the ways you can mix from one song to the other. 99% of the tutorials on mixing all focused on finding 2 songs that you can match the BPM on, finding the right spot in the song and then just working the crossfader. Easy enough it seemed. Then I was actually watching an Ill.Gates youtube video on his APC40 template and he quickly mentions how DJs mix and how they cut either the highs and lows out of one song, the opposite from the other song that will soon be fading in and then once the new song is in and the old one is out the EQs are all back up creating a "bandpass". What is this technique called because I cant find any other mention of it online? Thanks for any help! |
| Klara Kinnebrew 01.02.2013 | Great info guys. I really have learned a lot from this thread and the reading I Have done on some of the topics that have been brought up. I believe I fully understand what is going on now with EQing. |
| Cole Maroto 31.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
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| Delfina Suedmeyer 31.01.2013 | here is my buddy's tutorial showing you the basics of eqing or as he like to call it phasing. there are 4 parts. he explains them and then demonstrates them very well. i find it to be helpful for people new to mixing. part three is where he shows "eqing".. you're hands might not be used to them at first, but practice makes perfect and soon enough its just second nature to you. some songs will tend to make you eq faster and some you can take your time. it all depends on the songs. |
| Rhona Dessler 01.02.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
^^^I believe this exact arguement is a big reason why Deadmau5, among others where called "button pushers" a few months ago(and the sync button)^^^ But to give a little insight on EQing, or how I look at it, you have to imagine your mix as a 3 shelf book case. This sounds odd but bare with me. Your his at the top, mids in the middle, lows at the bottom. And your mix are the "books". So when one song is playing, say on track A, at full volume with no EQ at all, the book shelf is full of books from left to right. And if your still following me, to mix track B into A here's what I would do in the most basic form. (insert beat match here) I would kill the highs and mids on track B, as we bring the song it this will allow track A's "books" to stay unharmed on the shelf. Next I would slowly take out the Lows in track A, and at the same time slowly bring in track B. This would take some of A's low books off the shelf allowing room for track B's to put on the shelf. If everything is going smoothly you can start to switch out your highs and mids from A to B. Eventually you will just kill A and run with B. Hopefully this makes some sense to you and can help you in some way. I forget where I saw this "theory" from but I wanna say it was on a community here or somewhere online, so credit goes out to someone out there. |
| Layne Koop 31.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
The EQ frequency on a mixer is typically fixed. So a "low" EQ knob will typically center on 80Hz (more or less). Suppose that there is something in the song that you need to remove at 180Hz, or 200Hz. Even a full kill EQ knob will leave "some" of that higher frequency content. A high pass filter can be adjusted in both frequency and slope. This will provide much better remove of the desired content. Any slope that is larger than -24dB/oct will do at least as well as a full kill EQ. |
| Klara Kinnebrew 31.01.2013 | Sound, are you saying it might actually sound better by just using a high and low pass filter in ableton instead of the EQs on my mixer? Another thing im debating is if I should keep using my mixer along with the apc40 to start. Having very little knowlege on mixing and having multiple pieces of hardware seems to just complicate things more. I messed around with mixing last evening for about 2 hours and it seems I got no where. Im believeing of scrapping the mixer for a while and possibly just learning how to do everything with ableton and the apc40. Then hopefully after some time when I can actually mix songs I will introduce another hardware mixer. Thoughts? It sucks because I have found very little online in regards to tutorials on djing with ableton. Most guides just seem to go over warping. I can warp in my sleep at this point. I practiced the crap out of it. The only other tutorials for ableton I really found just went as far as crossfading from one track to the other. I believe that was the ableton life blog youtube channel. |
| Layne Koop 31.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by DJKyleHughes
When a 3 band EQ was the only tool I had available to me, I did use the "low" EQ to remove the bassline from songs for transitions. It felt "OK" at best to me - but that is probably just my own bias. I find that the filter (which is a high/low pass filter) is MUCH more effective at isolating sounds than the EQ. Not every board has a "full kill" EQ. And even with a full kill EQ....the EQ frequencies are fixed. The filter allows the specific "crossover" point between the two songs to be adjusted...and even overlapped when appropriate. Today, I often tweak the EQ on a track...but mostly it is to adjust the sound "within" a track. |
| Klara Kinnebrew 30.01.2013 | You guys rock. Thanks so much. Off to the lab to try this after I get the little ones to bed... |
| Noriko Lebowitz 30.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
Start track a start track b Beat match the two tracks(If you use sync you worship the devil and everyone believes you smell bad) cut the bass in track b lower the mids and highs in track b slowly bring in track b with the channel fader Now- increase mids on b, decrease mids on a. (do this for all of them) fade out track A when all of your EQs are even A good way to believe of it is to imagine that the two tracks playing create a certain amount of space, when you decrease something on A, it allows you to increase something on B. and Vice Versa. EDIT* Obviously it's not a standard black and white technique. It varies from track to track but that's the basis of it. |
| Cole Maroto 30.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by William Gibson
most people don't blend songs using the crossfader, but it works for some. i don't even use it when i do standard mixing. |
| Yong Aptekar 30.01.2013 | The track coming in should have the bass down, the track playing has it up. As you bring in track B, everything should mesh well if you have beatmatched properly. At a good time, kill the bass on track A, and bring up track B bass. That's it! I call it EQing or swapping basslines as well. Check out DJ angelo, or Ellaskins on youtube, I faintly remember a video about EQing. |
| Klara Kinnebrew 30.01.2013 | Awsome, thanks for all the input guys. Im just having a hard time with understanding how you do 3 things with only 2 hands. High pass on one track, low pass on the other track and crossfading between the 2 tracks all at once? What am I missing? |
| Noriko Lebowitz 30.01.2013 | eh, EQ swaps? Bass swaps? I just call it EQing |
| Layne Koop 30.01.2013 | I use the filter to remove the mid/highs from one track (playing the bass only), and to remove the lows from another (playing the mid/highs only)...and then blend them together. I will often set a loop on the track with the bass....that makes the final product sound cleaner. The loop might be 4 or 8 beats...or if the grid is stable, I might go as long as 32 beats. I refer to the technique as "swapping basslines"...but that's something I made up to describe the technique to people who ask. I have no idea if there is another or more descriptive name for the technique. |
| Jetta Drenzek 30.01.2013 | The technique has no name, it's just EQing. Basically track A is playing, and you start track B and you get the beat matched, then you fade the volume in. You don't have to take the bass out for some songs, but the majority, it causes the kick drum to double up and this causes distortion or wobbly beats, since not all kicks peak on the beat, and correcting it can cause your hi-hats and snare to fall out of time. |
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