Looking to upgrade to timecoded vinyl, some questions
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Looking to upgrade to timecoded vinyl, some questions Posted on: 17.10.2012 by Ione Mizelle I believe I've posted a similar topic a while back, but now I actually have the budget to upgrade so I'd like to make sure I get the gear
I need. I'm looking to upgrade from my Numark Omnicontrol (which has been experiencing issues as of late) to the classic 2 TTs and a mixer setup, but with timecoded vinyl so I can still have access to my whole collection. My budget is like $1200-$1400, which may or may not prove to be enough, but we'll see.1.) The set I'm most interested in is the set everybody seems to be familiar with, Technic mk2 1200s, mostly for their reliability. I'm not too familiar with the concept of timecoded vinyl (I've looked into this question, but I can't seem to find a plain answer.) The thing is I'm assuming there will be other gear necessary to make the tables work properly with my software, but I'm not too sure what. An external soundcard maybe? Would I need any other special gear for the tables to work properly? 2.) Because of my limited budget I realize I might not be able to afford exactly what I want (mk2s seem to go for either really cheap or really expensive from what I've seen), so I'm trying to work out a backup option that won't cripple me in terms of affordability and accessibility (i'm trying to avoid cdjs because they all seem to be expensive, and burning my music to cds would take a huge chunk out of my wallet.) Are there any other model of turntables I should keep an eye out for, perhaps that's more likely to suit my price range. 3.) The mixer I was looking at is the Behringer DDM4000, a 4 channel midi mixer which seems to have a lot of positive backing behind it. I'm willing to work with a 2 channel mixer though if it serves my price range better, though I believe I'd lose my plans of turning my omnicontrol into a sample/effects board as a result. My main concern is whether or not I should bother with a midi mixer or just go full analog. I'm assuming a midi mixer would save me the trouble of getting a soundcard, but in the end would it be more expensive then just getting an analog mixer with a soundcard? If any of my questions or explanations are unclear let me know. I'll be perfectly honest, I'm still not very knowledgeable about tech, so I might be overlooking something important, or just overcomplicating my situation. | |
| Ione Mizelle 28.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by bumtsch
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| Delila Vandommelen 25.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by Jack Rabid
*NI or Rane dj interfaces allow NI or Serato software* but you can plug them into any mixer you see fit. *more or less stricly - NI's kit brings you DVS to an otherwise fully functional product when used with any proper audio interface, and Rane's kit will just make SSL usable - PERIOD. No interface = no proper playback, let alone dvs. *Certified mixers only allow NI or Serato software for DVS depending on the mixer. You can use them with something else through their coreaudio/asio drivers when available but you won't get DVS from them. Nothing prevents you from hooking up either interface to whatever mixer you come across, whether it's certified for one or the other or nothing at all, in which case the certification doesn't matter because you're just hooked to the mixer's RCAs. |
| Jeromy Bana 08.02.2013 | Correct me if I am wrong. Serato uses a chip license system.. when you launch serato software, it checks what plugged into the USB for the chip. It looks for the SL box or Rane Mixer ( or third party hardware with a chip, like the Pioneer DDJ-SX for an itch dongle as example). So even if you mapped serato to your S4, you still need a Serato hardware dongle on the pc. even if unused. Because of that. whats the cheapest youcan get SSL for? $475ish for an SL2? And yes I agree its bullcrap that NI charges so much for the Scratch upgrade... but technically, it is a different product in their eyes. (even if TSP2 is inside of TP2).. I believe the s4 should come with TSP2 (If I am not mistaken, NI does have to pay some sort of license fee for the scratch technology. perhaps they are trying to keep the base TP2 lower in price by cutting it out) at least with traktor, you can just buy the software and use with any controller. $99 for TP2 and $109 for TSP2 (with timecode kit). (every now and then they have a 50% off sale on TP2) But you guys do bring up a valid point. what happens to the thousands of S2,S4,Z1,F1,X1 users when they go to TP3? free upgrades? only for a month? no upgrade without forking over your hard earned dough... I believe the real differance we are all overlooking. Rane is a hardware manufacture and makes most of their the money off the hardware. Traktor is a software manufacture and makes their money off software.. although, they have defiantly been treading in the hardware waters these days. just as Rane has been treading into the software market with itch. |
| Ione Mizelle 28.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by bumtsch
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| Delila Vandommelen 25.01.2013 |
Originally Posted by Jack Rabid
*NI or Rane dj interfaces allow NI or Serato software* but you can plug them into any mixer you see fit. *more or less stricly - NI's kit brings you DVS to an otherwise fully functional product when used with any proper audio interface, and Rane's kit will just make SSL usable - PERIOD. No interface = no proper playback, let alone dvs. *Certified mixers only allow NI or Serato software for DVS depending on the mixer. You can use them with something else through their coreaudio/asio drivers when available but you won't get DVS from them. Nothing prevents you from hooking up either interface to whatever mixer you come across, whether it's certified for one or the other or nothing at all, in which case the certification doesn't matter because you're just hooked to the mixer's RCAs. |
| Federico Vilas 23.01.2013 | i love TSP2 but NI is greedy with all the updates, new software etc that you have to continue to DL and purchase every 2 years. One thing serato did right is FREE UPGRADES...I may switch back soon just b/c |
| Ione Mizelle 23.01.2013 | I've continued to look into getting an SL box, and it looks like I can get a setup for $300 cheapest. I guess for not having to pay for software updates in the future that's not half bad. I'm assuming the SL box being an audio interface just lets you use any mixer with it basically? Or does it have to be serato certified like Traktor? |
| Maricruz Felter 15.01.2013 | I believe the software is free with the idea that you can't really use it at all without an SL box. SSL doesn't have MIDI functionality for most of its core functions (IIRC) so it's effectively useless even though you can DL it for free. It's actually a great way to handle licensing cause you can resell your SL box without worrying about the software license. You can still sell a traktor box, but I believe you have to get NI involved to transfer the license and I'm not sure how easy that is to do. I'm personally not a fan of the SSL user interface I believe it's really ugly. I do like how the waveforms are side-by-side though, that seems legit. I'd love to give SSL a try but not really worth it for me since I have a Traktor cert. mixer, no point in paying more money just to get an SL box that will do basically the same thing. Plus the MIDI mapping engine for Traktor is so much more powerful that it's nice to be able to have a robust companion controller in addition to turntables. |
| Ione Mizelle 15.01.2013 | Tell me about it! Talk about lack of customer loyalty, I feel no obligation to traktor right now with how difficult it's becoming. Is SSL free? I went on their site and just downloaded it, and normally I'd assume it's a trial, but it's doesn't say jack about being a trial. |
| Maricruz Felter 14.01.2013 | I believe you mean Traktor SCRATCH pro 2... You won't be able to use DVS with just the plain vanilla TP2. It's ridiculous, don't even get me started on it. I bought a Traktor certified mixer. I was under the impression the added cost of gaining that certification was passed onto me when I paid for it... But then I get double taxed being asked to also purchase TSP2 when I'm already a TP2 owner. Should be a free upgrade if you can verify proof you've purchased certified gear. |
| Ione Mizelle 14.01.2013 | Ok guys, kind of necroing this thread, and thank you BB, I actually didn't consider the audio interface tidbit of things, and I definitely want to have that in mind. I'm still pretty set on my traktor setup, since well....I have it, I'm used to it, why waste my resources? But I'm probably gonna have to get TP2 now, which is silly that it's not a free upgrade. I don't even believe it's discounted. I don't really wanna buy an upgrade that consists of colorful waveforms and like 4 new effects just to play on my new gear , so I may just jump ship and go serato if that ends up being the case, but if not, anybody know some decent audio interfaces for traktor? |
| Audrey Pinda 28.10.2012 | Honestly, it looks like you are looking at the route I took in purchasing gear a couple years back or whatnot. If you aren't in a rush to get all the gear at once, you can find some amazing deals on used gear. If you want turntables, I highly suggest getting the Technics MK2's or better, but there are some others you can consider as well that will be cheaper. The Numark TTX or TT-200's (200's just don't have the digital business, still the same torque, which is the important thing). Also Stanton ST or STR-150's. Vestax PDX 2000 or PDX 3000. Honestly though, you'll probably be happiest getting the Technics 1200's, they will also retain their resale value, and they are most likely what you are going to be finding in a club. You should be able to find a decent set of used tables, if you look around a bit and don't jump at the first opportunity, for around $500 or so, maybe a bit more, and if you're lucky a bit less. THEN you also need to consider buying decent slipmats ($20 or so) and Needles/Carts (which can range vastly, I use Ortofon Concorde Elektro's which are $130 each for instance, but you can get away with different needles). The other thing is getting them tuned up, making sure the pitch is spot on, and the cables / ground wires are all in working order. You can do it yourself, bring it to a buddy, or bring it to a shop. It's something I recommend doing at least once just to make sure everything is good to go. The secondary thing is getting a mixer / audio interface. I HIGHLY recommend getting an external audio interface, and not getting one that is built into your mixer. The reason being? What if you don't have YOUR specific mixer for a gig? If you don't have an external audio interface, you're basically shit out of luck. The big thing here is figuring out if you want to go with Traktor Scratch Pro, or Serato Scratch Live. Personally? I use SSL and love it. I don't have to worry about gridding tracks, I just analyze them, and then I'm ready to play them, almost as soon as I'm done buying them. I also prefer the user interface. But this is a very personal decision. I went with an SL1 box myself. You can find them used from $250-$350 usually. You basically plug your turntables into the SL1 box, and then the box into the inputs on your mixer. There is a USB that attaches to the computer (which IS USB powered, so you don't need an external power supply which is handy). Use the time-code vinyl, and you have full control over your Mp3's. (Serato now supports FLAC as well fyi). As far as mixers go, this is the thing I personally would worry about the least while getting started. GREAT mixers are incredibly expensive. Mediocre mixers aren't worth it. I went with a used Rane TTM-56, which is a tank of a mixer and you can get a lot of use out of it. You can find some really good deals on them as well, but it is only two channels. A buddy of mine has the DDM4000, and while I do like it, the sound quality isn't the same as the Rane. It's hard to judge if you aren't super picky, but I can definitely tell a difference personally. I'd recommend getting a basic mixer for now though, and then upgrading that later once you have the rest of your setup going. Hope that helps |
| Evie Baghdasarian 25.10.2012 | You can't use time code with Traktor pro. So I would embrace anything that includes TP2 included with it. |
| Reid Barreiro 25.10.2012 | u can't upgrade software on tractor? (for free that is) thats too bad, i still have to update myself with the newest serato release. |
| Ione Mizelle 24.10.2012 | Software and soundcard for 799 in a mixer is awesome, but I already have software (Traktor Pro) that I'm happy enough with. And yeah it's 1, not 2, I was stupid enough to buy it right before traktor pro 2 got released because I wasn't paying attention. :P But I'm not too concerned about sample decks or colored waveforms or anything really in that. I'd only really did it if it were impossible for me to get Traktor scratch to work with traktor pro |
| Evelynn Pennycook 24.10.2012 | Seriously look at the new Traktor Z2 mixer, you will get traktor software and soundcard for 799. Then for tables I would get used techs or even better new stanton 150's ($599 new each). Also I agree on the X1600 mixer. |
| Maricruz Felter 23.10.2012 | the X1600 is the best piece of DJ gear I've ever bought, if that helps at all. I've never regretted it, and still believe it's one of the best feature rich mixers on the market for the price. |
| Ione Mizelle 23.10.2012 | Wow, thanks for all the advice guys, still got a little more research ahead of me haha. Shish, those AT-LP120's look really tempting, I'm considering those with the Denon X1600, which puts me right in my budget, maybe a little over but looks worth it for the functionality I'm getting for that price. Got some birthday cash coming my way too, so looks like there will be some gear shopping in my near future. |
| Nadia Shelmadine 22.10.2012 | 2x Technics SL1200mkX USED (NO idea how much they go these days, 600ish?) 1x Pioneer DJM-T1 (including Traktor SCRATCH Pro 2) 700$. |
| Evangelina Spalla 21.10.2012 | I recommend the numark ttxusb turntable, not to expensive and really good. I'd stay away from the behringer mixer and go for a dennon or Allen and Heath. Good luck with it. |
| Nancey Inderlied 21.10.2012 | If you don't want to cruise ebay and go through the hassle of buying used tables, you could always go for a pair of AT-LP120's or whichever Stantons come in at $200, an SL2, and a small, but still solid, mixer like a DJM-250. $400 tables $500 SL2 $350 mixer $1250 |
| Ione Mizelle 20.10.2012 | I'll look into those decks, olio. And I already got traktor, I don't want to get timecoded cds because I don't really wanna work with a jogwheel anymore, I want tactile feedback when I'm playing a track for beatmatching. Rip: that sounds pretty sweet, guess it depends if I can get a pair of tables for around 400-500. If so I'd look into that, because I've heard really good things about it in the past. |
| Maricruz Felter 18.10.2012 | throwing in my opinion for getting the Denon X1600 Traktor certified mixer. You'll negate the need for an NI interface since it's certified. I got mine for $800 all cash, that plus the two tables should get you right in the wheel house. The X1600 is a superb piece of kit, and has MIDI functionality built into the mixer. For example, each channel strip can be switched to control MIDI of whatever you want, then switched back to analog control. There's also a MIDI strip on the mixer with 4 endless rotaries and 4 MIDI buttons (and 4 pages to select between, so really 16 endless rotaries and 16 buttons). I have these rotaries programmed to control looping for each deck, track browsing, loading into decks (the rotaries push down as well). Best part is, since the mixer is certified, there's no need for extraneous cables. I have 2 RCAs from each deck into the mixer, then cables out to my speakers and USB into the computer and it's done. With an interface, you'd have an extra pair of RCA cables running from the interface into the mixer. |
| Reid Barreiro 18.10.2012 | wait, why don't u use Timecode CD's? u won't have to burn your music? maybe a pair of secondhand Denons with a large platter? but to edit my first post, i 4got u said u need a mixer. so u may not be able to get T12's but make sure u account for enuff money to get traktor or serato. |
| Reid Barreiro 18.10.2012 | 2 used Technics 1200's-$1000 Serato SL2-$500 1.5k, but ur set with an extra hundred bucks |
| Johnetta Olewine 17.10.2012 | Pair of Super OEM decks (Stanton St150s etc)- $500 tops second hand Traktor Z2 mixer - $799 preorder from DJTT store $1300. Boom. |
| Ione Mizelle 17.10.2012 | Oooooh, wow that's a chunk of cash alright haha but I can work it out. Thanks for the recommendation though, I just took a look at the Mackie and it looks like a better option (less hardware to maintain and possibly replace is always good), so hopefully I can find a used model of that to keep me in the area of $1200, but with luck that won't be an issue if I can find some decently priced technics on the market. Speaking of which, do you have any recommendations on other possible turntable models to look out for? Or are the technics the safest bet for my price range? Assuming I don't get a bad pair of course, which would be another world of problems. |
| Danae Dumler 17.10.2012 | You'll need a soundcard either way unless there is one built into the mixer. There is not one in the Behringer, even though it has MIDI capabilities. And if you want timecode using Serato or Traktor, you will need one of those company's soundcards. Unless you get a traktor certified mixer, but you won't find one in the price range of the behringer (unless you get really lucky finding a used Mackie Traktor certified mixer). The Behringer is decent (and cheap) as an analog mixer, you can use the midi capabiltiies but will need a midi-to-usb cable to get it to work. But it's a really confusing mess in some ways if you use the effects and the midi controls. The sampler is practically useless and the "ultramizer" is just a compressor that you're better off staying away from. Overall though it's a lot of mixer for the price. I'd look for a used Mackie d.4 Pro if I were you though; combining the Behringer and Audio 8 is probably about the same price. Audio 8 or Serato SL1 will set you back about $300 so count on parting with that cash on top of the behringer and the decks. |
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