S4 for Mashups? I'm not too familiar with DJ controllers and software, I have a bit of experience with turntables, used to have a pair of 1200s and mixer but was mostly into tablism, had to sell all my gear for school though. Now I'm interested in getting back into DJing and a bit of production, just wondering if the S4 would be suitable for creating mash-ups.
Cheers |
nayit ruiz jaramillo
26.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
Yeah there is a full mapping that copies the NHL mapping that users can tweak in midi mode. Its fully customisable but the NHL mapping is not currently customisable.
Controller Editor is your friend.
Originally Posted by padi_04
I really want to know what the alternative mode is all about (believeing midi mode x1).
The new platter system looks like an improvement in the "dj format" controller market, at least in reviews, so this could be a dealbreaker for some.
care to share karlos?
Yeah just put the S4 in midi mode and its a midi controller like any other.
The jog wheel is far and above the best jog wheel there is on any midi controller. Nothing comes close.
Originally Posted by padi_04
lol, this thing ain't even out and you guys are planning to hack it, god bless djtt
Where theres a will, theres a way !!!
No-one "needs" an S4. You can achieve most of what the S4 can do with a VCI 100 and an X1.
With the right X1 mapping the sample functions are easy to use with an X1. Its perfect for the job.
Id certainly not say the the S4 can do things that other controllers cant.
But mapping the new Copy Mode for samples would be a bitch to do really well but i know a few guys on DJTT that could do it.
What the S4 does that no other controller(s) can do is do all the functions in NHL mode mode and do them on a unit that was designed ti work with Traktor.
I believe if you have all the gear already then waiting for the Traktor update/upgrade is wise. If you have a VCI100 and a Midifighter or X1 you will be able to rock Traktors sample/loop features when they come out.
If you then love the sample features you may want to trade and get the S4 for a dedicated controller/soundcard. |
Nedra Fresneda
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by maxonemillionone
If the case need be somebody could crack the encryption.
There are several layers which the proprietary NHL protocol's security layer could possibly exist on. http://www.softpanorama.org/Net/osi_...l_layers.shtml I'm sure there is a dev kit. If not I'll do some reading on interpreting HID. I'm sure Karlos can enlighten me if he eventually hopes for a S4 jailbreak.
Is there anybody else here skilled in penetration testing/reverse engineering/debugging?
Best case scenario there's no encryption just a special handshake going on between the hardware and application.
lol, this thing ain't even out and you guys are planning to hack it, god bless djtt |
Kristian Buneta
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by photojojo
It will be a fully mappable midi controller. Not sure about mapping in HID mode though.
If the case need be somebody could crack the encryption.
There are several layers which the proprietary NHL protocol's security layer could possibly exist on. http://www.softpanorama.org/Net/osi_...l_layers.shtml I'm sure there is a dev kit. If not I'll do some reading on interpreting HID. I'm sure Karlos can enlighten me if he eventually hopes for a S4 jailbreak.
Is there anybody else here skilled in penetration testing/reverse engineering/debugging?
Best case scenario there's no encryption just a special handshake going on between the hardware and application. |
Leeanna Ayla
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
Originally Posted by maxonemillionone
Hold on. What "not being customizable at all" that's simply not possible. Of course you can map the unit. "Native Instruments Controller Editor" people?
It will be a fully mappable midi controller. Not sure about mapping in HID mode though. |
Kristian Buneta
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
Hold on. What "not being customizable at all" that's simply not possible. Of course you can map the unit. "Native Instruments Controller Editor" people? |
Roscoe Schaum
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
Part of the appeal of the S4 is that it comes with Traktor which I do not have yet, the scratching looks good and I like the idea of having things laid out and mapped so I can get right into it before having to master the software. |
Nedra Fresneda
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
I really want to know what the alternative mode is all about (believeing midi mode x1).
The new platter system looks like an improvement in the "dj format" controller market, at least in reviews, so this could be a dealbreaker for some.
care to share karlos?
In my case, im jog abstinent and need to get back with my roots... besides, i'm too lazy for set preaparation in live, IMO it takes the fun out of it. I like mapping (would love it with a resizable window) and taking myself and the controller to the limit, so i see it as a promising piece of hardware rather than what is written on the top plate. |
Julissa Serrone
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I believe it's only a matter of time before we get a warping feature in Traktor. If the S4 is suppose to be all about making your own re-edits and eliminating some of the need for a DAW then it's going to have to get warping. Then it truly will be your all in one solution.
I asked this over on the NI community
and it's something that NI has on the road map for Traktor. I agree this is a missing piece and as Traktor gets updates I'm sure the folks at NI are aware of how Ableton works and what needs to be improved in Traktor. Hopefully sooner than later. |
Dorcas Bassignani
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I believe it's only a matter of time before we get a warping feature in Traktor. If the S4 is suppose to be all about making your own re-edits and eliminating some of the need for a DAW then it's going to have to get warping. Then it truly will be your all in one solution.
i believe the S4 software does warp on loops and one shots you load in the sample decks. as they're quite short it wouldn't take as much processing power as it would a whole track.
with the way those samplers work you can pretty much do the ableton thing, while having traditional flexibility on the other decks.
for this reason i say - S4 over ableton |
Kristian Buneta
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by Matt Gnarly
I'm not too familiar with DJ controllers and software, I have a bit of experience with turntables, used to have a pair of 1200s and mixer but was mostly into tablism, had to sell all my gear for school though. Now I'm interested in getting back into DJing and a bit of production, just wondering if the S4 would be suitable for creating mash-ups.
Cheers
Sure. Any audio manipulating software/hardware combination is capable/suited really. Is it ideal? Not really because the with the Sync function isn't going to fix a drifting drum solo; a problem you don't have with electronic music. You can use warp markers but they aren't as intuitive, or should I say easy, as Ableton's. In the end, yes. I'm sure if you love the profession you'll figure it out. |
Roscoe Schaum
25.10.2010 | I'm not too familiar with DJ controllers and software, I have a bit of experience with turntables, used to have a pair of 1200s and mixer but was mostly into tablism, had to sell all my gear for school though. Now I'm interested in getting back into DJing and a bit of production, just wondering if the S4 would be suitable for creating mash-ups.
Cheers |
nayit ruiz jaramillo
26.10.2010 | Hmm good point.
I was believeing of my own Midi mapping for the X1 that controls the sampler but yeah your right, NI will probably make an NHL mapping for the X1 and the Sample features.
You could then have your own Midi map for whatever... |
Leeanna Ayla
26.10.2010 | So if your using an X1 for something that's natively labeled on the S4 you'll have to switch to midi mode to use those buttons on the S4 for something else? Guess I need to get a foot switch as well. |
nayit ruiz jaramillo
26.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
Yeah there is a full mapping that copies the NHL mapping that users can tweak in midi mode. Its fully customisable but the NHL mapping is not currently customisable.
Controller Editor is your friend.
Originally Posted by padi_04
I really want to know what the alternative mode is all about (believeing midi mode x1).
The new platter system looks like an improvement in the "dj format" controller market, at least in reviews, so this could be a dealbreaker for some.
care to share karlos?
Yeah just put the S4 in midi mode and its a midi controller like any other.
The jog wheel is far and above the best jog wheel there is on any midi controller. Nothing comes close.
Originally Posted by padi_04
lol, this thing ain't even out and you guys are planning to hack it, god bless djtt
Where theres a will, theres a way !!!
No-one "needs" an S4. You can achieve most of what the S4 can do with a VCI 100 and an X1.
With the right X1 mapping the sample functions are easy to use with an X1. Its perfect for the job.
Id certainly not say the the S4 can do things that other controllers cant.
But mapping the new Copy Mode for samples would be a bitch to do really well but i know a few guys on DJTT that could do it.
What the S4 does that no other controller(s) can do is do all the functions in NHL mode mode and do them on a unit that was designed ti work with Traktor.
I believe if you have all the gear already then waiting for the Traktor update/upgrade is wise. If you have a VCI100 and a Midifighter or X1 you will be able to rock Traktors sample/loop features when they come out.
If you then love the sample features you may want to trade and get the S4 for a dedicated controller/soundcard. |
Nedra Fresneda
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by maxonemillionone
If the case need be somebody could crack the encryption.
There are several layers which the proprietary NHL protocol's security layer could possibly exist on. http://www.softpanorama.org/Net/osi_...l_layers.shtml I'm sure there is a dev kit. If not I'll do some reading on interpreting HID. I'm sure Karlos can enlighten me if he eventually hopes for a S4 jailbreak.
Is there anybody else here skilled in penetration testing/reverse engineering/debugging?
Best case scenario there's no encryption just a special handshake going on between the hardware and application.
lol, this thing ain't even out and you guys are planning to hack it, god bless djtt |
Kristian Buneta
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by photojojo
It will be a fully mappable midi controller. Not sure about mapping in HID mode though.
If the case need be somebody could crack the encryption.
There are several layers which the proprietary NHL protocol's security layer could possibly exist on. http://www.softpanorama.org/Net/osi_...l_layers.shtml I'm sure there is a dev kit. If not I'll do some reading on interpreting HID. I'm sure Karlos can enlighten me if he eventually hopes for a S4 jailbreak.
Is there anybody else here skilled in penetration testing/reverse engineering/debugging?
Best case scenario there's no encryption just a special handshake going on between the hardware and application. |
Leeanna Ayla
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
Originally Posted by maxonemillionone
Hold on. What "not being customizable at all" that's simply not possible. Of course you can map the unit. "Native Instruments Controller Editor" people?
It will be a fully mappable midi controller. Not sure about mapping in HID mode though. |
Kristian Buneta
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
Hold on. What "not being customizable at all" that's simply not possible. Of course you can map the unit. "Native Instruments Controller Editor" people? |
Roscoe Schaum
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
Part of the appeal of the S4 is that it comes with Traktor which I do not have yet, the scratching looks good and I like the idea of having things laid out and mapped so I can get right into it before having to master the software. |
Nedra Fresneda
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by ctrld
hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything.
I really want to know what the alternative mode is all about (believeing midi mode x1).
The new platter system looks like an improvement in the "dj format" controller market, at least in reviews, so this could be a dealbreaker for some.
care to share karlos?
In my case, im jog abstinent and need to get back with my roots... besides, i'm too lazy for set preaparation in live, IMO it takes the fun out of it. I like mapping (would love it with a resizable window) and taking myself and the controller to the limit, so i see it as a promising piece of hardware rather than what is written on the top plate. |
25.10.2010 | hint: you will be able to do the same stuff with regular controllers once the features are a part of traktor (scratch) pro, which has already been confirmed by NI. so there's really no reason to get an S4 unless you need a "fire and forget" type unit that will take the mapping effort off your hands in exchange for not being customizable at all. I'm not sure about the last part though - Karlos, can you confirm?
besides all that, you can do mashups with anything. |
Roscoe Schaum
25.10.2010 | You guys deserve commission on this, I'm pretty much sold on the S4. Now the hard part is getting the cash. |
nayit ruiz jaramillo
25.10.2010 | S4 is amazing for mashups.
Take a track and sample a section, add one of your own drum loops or percussion.
Load the same track in Deck B and filter the vocal out over the top of the loops.
Sample the chorus, loop in a Sample deck.
Before you know it you have a totally different version that SOUNDS BLOODY AWFUL...
Just kidding... you will surprise yourself how quickly you pick the sample functions up and can get creative and deconstruct tracks.
I was a bit 'Meh' about the Sampler as a creative feature in Traktor but im addicted now.
If want to do Mashups manually on the fly and add a bit of a live feel rather than the more mechanical Ableton way then S4 is totally for you.
(i know Ableton isnt really mechanical but you get what i mean) |
Julissa Serrone
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I believe it's only a matter of time before we get a warping feature in Traktor. If the S4 is suppose to be all about making your own re-edits and eliminating some of the need for a DAW then it's going to have to get warping. Then it truly will be your all in one solution.
I asked this over on the NI community
and it's something that NI has on the road map for Traktor. I agree this is a missing piece and as Traktor gets updates I'm sure the folks at NI are aware of how Ableton works and what needs to be improved in Traktor. Hopefully sooner than later. |
Dorcas Bassignani
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by rdej47
I believe it's only a matter of time before we get a warping feature in Traktor. If the S4 is suppose to be all about making your own re-edits and eliminating some of the need for a DAW then it's going to have to get warping. Then it truly will be your all in one solution.
i believe the S4 software does warp on loops and one shots you load in the sample decks. as they're quite short it wouldn't take as much processing power as it would a whole track.
with the way those samplers work you can pretty much do the ableton thing, while having traditional flexibility on the other decks.
for this reason i say - S4 over ableton |
Johnsie Kingrea
25.10.2010 | I believe it's only a matter of time before we get a warping feature in Traktor. If the S4 is suppose to be all about making your own re-edits and eliminating some of the need for a DAW then it's going to have to get warping. Then it truly will be your all in one solution. |
Roscoe Schaum
25.10.2010 | I figured Ableton might be the route to go down, it always seemed a bit tedious to me in the past, but I might have to dust off the Axiom and copy of Live I have. What I'm more interested is doing things live with a controller, rather than in Live. |
Kristian Buneta
25.10.2010 |
Originally Posted by Matt Gnarly
I'm not too familiar with DJ controllers and software, I have a bit of experience with turntables, used to have a pair of 1200s and mixer but was mostly into tablism, had to sell all my gear for school though. Now I'm interested in getting back into DJing and a bit of production, just wondering if the S4 would be suitable for creating mash-ups.
Cheers
Sure. Any audio manipulating software/hardware combination is capable/suited really. Is it ideal? Not really because the with the Sync function isn't going to fix a drifting drum solo; a problem you don't have with electronic music. You can use warp markers but they aren't as intuitive, or should I say easy, as Ableton's. In the end, yes. I'm sure if you love the profession you'll figure it out. |
