KONTROL s4 - Where is the INnobender?
KONTROL s4 - Where is the INnobender? Posted on: 01.08.2011 by Jenise Boun Hey Guys, I am just wondering if anyone has found any alternative to getting better Fader Cut on the S4, I am so tired of waiting on the Innobender. If you have any info that can help me with a fader replacement on the S4 please let me know! Thanks!GRiM | |
| Laurene Kestin 19.10.2011 | i love my xfader which was about |
| Faustino Stringfellow 30.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by SupaSandeep
Personally I believe that the NI fader is okay, if you need to be a scratch DJ. then MIDI isn't going to help, you will always be at the mercy of latency. Also, this addition will not improve the sound in anyway whatsoever nor will it improve the units latency, after speaking at length with NI about it, they don't advise anyone dismantling their KS4's. As for warranty, If Elliot wants to sells these into the KS4, he should take over the warranty ...seems fair. Or at least be honest about it all. As soon as you take a screwdriver to the KS4, you are on your own. Now when this unit averages around |
| Laurene Kestin 19.10.2011 | i love my xfader which was about |
| Faustino Stringfellow 30.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by SupaSandeep
Personally I believe that the NI fader is okay, if you need to be a scratch DJ. then MIDI isn't going to help, you will always be at the mercy of latency. Also, this addition will not improve the sound in anyway whatsoever nor will it improve the units latency, after speaking at length with NI about it, they don't advise anyone dismantling their KS4's. As for warranty, If Elliot wants to sells these into the KS4, he should take over the warranty ...seems fair. Or at least be honest about it all. As soon as you take a screwdriver to the KS4, you are on your own. Now when this unit averages around |
| Laurene Kestin 19.10.2011 | i love my xfader which was about |
| Faustino Stringfellow 30.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by SupaSandeep
Personally I believe that the NI fader is okay, if you need to be a scratch DJ. then MIDI isn't going to help, you will always be at the mercy of latency. Also, this addition will not improve the sound in anyway whatsoever nor will it improve the units latency, after speaking at length with NI about it, they don't advise anyone dismantling their KS4's. As for warranty, If Elliot wants to sells these into the KS4, he should take over the warranty ...seems fair. Or at least be honest about it all. As soon as you take a screwdriver to the KS4, you are on your own. Now when this unit averages around |
| Laurene Kestin 19.10.2011 | i love my xfader which was about |
| Faustino Stringfellow 30.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by SupaSandeep
Personally I believe that the NI fader is okay, if you need to be a scratch DJ. then MIDI isn't going to help, you will always be at the mercy of latency. Also, this addition will not improve the sound in anyway whatsoever nor will it improve the units latency, after speaking at length with NI about it, they don't advise anyone dismantling their KS4's. As for warranty, If Elliot wants to sells these into the KS4, he should take over the warranty ...seems fair. Or at least be honest about it all. As soon as you take a screwdriver to the KS4, you are on your own. Now when this unit averages around |
| Laurene Kestin 19.10.2011 | i love my xfader which was about |
| Faustino Stringfellow 30.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by SupaSandeep
Personally I believe that the NI fader is okay, if you need to be a scratch DJ. then MIDI isn't going to help, you will always be at the mercy of latency. Also, this addition will not improve the sound in anyway whatsoever nor will it improve the units latency, after speaking at length with NI about it, they don't advise anyone dismantling their KS4's. As for warranty, If Elliot wants to sells these into the KS4, he should take over the warranty ...seems fair. Or at least be honest about it all. As soon as you take a screwdriver to the KS4, you are on your own. Now when this unit averages around |
| Faustino Stringfellow 28.09.2011 | Elliot, sorry for the long delay, but i was waiting for an official line from Native Instruments. Two points really. If any of the NI faders fail (for any reason) they will be replaced under warranty. Opening up the S4 will cancel any warranty left, at the moment it's two years from sale. In other words put an Innobender/fader in the S4 and kiss goodbye to support, or if in 18 months the S4 soundcard fails ..... tough. No warranty whatsoever. If you don't like my answer, take it up with Native not me. -----------------------from native Instruments-------------------------------------------- Hello Mark, Thank you for contacting Native Instruments! 1.) If any hardware has a technical failure within the warranty period, we |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 03.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJZILCH
http://www.innofader.com/installations.php?id=30&pid=11 and then mount it inside the S4. Most of the difficulty will be removing all of the screws holding the plastic case together and opening & closing the unit back up. Pioneer uses just a standard carbon crossfader on the DJM-400 so it's pretty normal with frequent scratching that you wore it out in 2 months. Elliot |
| Kandra Fagler 03.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by JSM
after that i learnt that if you are into scratching, non-contact faders is a must, i have since then bought a Rane TTM-56s and very happy with it so far, but i am really looking into upgrading my S4's fader into an innofader as well by the way elliot, is installation very easy? |
| Faustino Stringfellow 03.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by emarx
As for reliability Elliot...hmmmm .. I have a Gemini PMX-7 sat in the living room, bought way back in 1989, never serviced (cleaned and oiled a few times) nothing replaced ... and it still works perfectly well. BTW Elliot, it was one of the first scratch mixers, and i used it for almost 3 years non stop before upgrading to a unit with FX. and after that it was a backup unit. I'm interested to hear how many people have actually worn out a x-fader .. i certainly haven't and i'm not gentle with mixers ... all i do is clean them periodically and store them safely after gigs. |
| Len Lukawski 18.11.2011 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vXoo...&feature=feedu expect some expansion on this as my Innobender arrived today |
| Tashia Mcdunn 10.11.2011 | bumping this thread to see if anyone has any info on fitting an innobender or innofader into the Kontrol S2! Thanks, Jim |
| Nick Kingsley 20.10.2011 | I can vouch for Innofaders, they are worth the money. I love mine. The feel is amazing, its extremely, extremely smooth and light. But since the entire thing is a heavy gauge metal - it has a nice weight to it. The other great reason for it is infinitely adjustable - cut, curve, etc. I have one in my nuo, so i can't comment on the s4 installation. But if you want a reliable fader that you'll never have to worry about, I'd go for it. |
| Laurene Kestin 19.10.2011 | i love my xfader which was about |
| Faustino Stringfellow 30.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by SupaSandeep
Personally I believe that the NI fader is okay, if you need to be a scratch DJ. then MIDI isn't going to help, you will always be at the mercy of latency. Also, this addition will not improve the sound in anyway whatsoever nor will it improve the units latency, after speaking at length with NI about it, they don't advise anyone dismantling their KS4's. As for warranty, If Elliot wants to sells these into the KS4, he should take over the warranty ...seems fair. Or at least be honest about it all. As soon as you take a screwdriver to the KS4, you are on your own. Now when this unit averages around |
| Ina Laurenson 29.09.2011 | man i've been waiting for a djm 700 innofader for the longest time and to believe it won't fit in the djm but it will fit in the s4 hmmmmmm |
| Vanita Gatchell 29.09.2011 | I installed the innobender and I love it, for me it wasn't totally about reliability as it is about the feel of it, now it feels like a proper scratch mixer u can debate all you want, but now that I have an innobender in there you can quickly feel the difference between the stock faders and this puppy. Kinda sucks about voiding the warranty, but hey it's DJ Tech Tools, we mods stuff here often, kinda comes with the territory |
| Faustino Stringfellow 28.09.2011 | Elliot, sorry for the long delay, but i was waiting for an official line from Native Instruments. Two points really. If any of the NI faders fail (for any reason) they will be replaced under warranty. Opening up the S4 will cancel any warranty left, at the moment it's two years from sale. In other words put an Innobender/fader in the S4 and kiss goodbye to support, or if in 18 months the S4 soundcard fails ..... tough. No warranty whatsoever. If you don't like my answer, take it up with Native not me. -----------------------from native Instruments-------------------------------------------- Hello Mark, Thank you for contacting Native Instruments! 1.) If any hardware has a technical failure within the warranty period, we |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 03.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by DJZILCH
http://www.innofader.com/installations.php?id=30&pid=11 and then mount it inside the S4. Most of the difficulty will be removing all of the screws holding the plastic case together and opening & closing the unit back up. Pioneer uses just a standard carbon crossfader on the DJM-400 so it's pretty normal with frequent scratching that you wore it out in 2 months. Elliot |
| Kandra Fagler 03.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by JSM
after that i learnt that if you are into scratching, non-contact faders is a must, i have since then bought a Rane TTM-56s and very happy with it so far, but i am really looking into upgrading my S4's fader into an innofader as well by the way elliot, is installation very easy? |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 03.09.2011 | @JSM yes I do recall the discussions on the ADJ community
s. Actually the feedback you gave was instrumental to generating a lot of internal discussion at ADJ and getting ADJ and myself to fix these issues. The various noise, low output, and distortion issues are all fixed on the VMS2, VMS4.1, and VMS4 Traktor. You have every right to complain that these issues weren't fixed prior to the product being released the first time. Unfortunately what many companies do (and I've made a lot of noise internally many times on this exact point) is they use their first few production runs as a "beta test" when what they should be doing is setting up a team of beta testers doing everything possible to test products way before customers ever see them. I just thought if you found other VMS4 production quality issues that we don't know about (esp parts not holding up mechanically), sending email is perfect then I could get it forwarded to the appropriate people. About the S4 crossfader: If someone scratches for hours per day on the S4 crossfader, it's going to wear out faster than normal. I believe the people who came on this thread just want a practical solution and if they have an S4 that is otherwise fully working they just want to get an upgrade fader. |
| Faustino Stringfellow 03.09.2011 | emarx .... i won't be contacting you "offline" to discuss the VMS4, i know you designed that and that you know me personally ! You have insulted me plenty of times of the VMS4 community
, that was then and not now ... i'll not be drawn into another battle. At least you are not a moderator on this community and can't have me banned! So onto the issue at hand. If any product fails after two months, it's time for your money back! It's called "not fit for purpose" in legal terms. I have asked the same question to may scratch DJ's, and they don't see an improvement over the latest non contact faders. Most of them are still happy with P&G's But getting back to the point ...the S4 is a MIDI controller, there are no analogue streams to mix ... are you really improving the response time (and therefore cut speed), can you REALLY notice a difference .... and if you are a full time scratch DJ, why are you using an S4 in the first place, a rane/eccler with DVS is far superior to any MIDI control system ... thats why i still have the Pioneer & tech12's. |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 03.09.2011 | @JSM: BTW Most crossfaders aren't covered in the guarantee, read the fine print. Even if they say the crossfader is covered NI may claim that the failure is due to mishandling or something like that if it does wear out. Also if possible please write to me directly about the VMS4 issues you found to [email protected]. It's unrelated to the S4 so I'd like to take this offline. |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 03.09.2011 | @JSM: The older Gemini mixers actually used good scratch faders based on the Alps long body fader design (may even be the actual Alps long body fader design - we'll need Professor Bx to get on here to confirm). The most popular derivatives of the Alps long body fader currently on the market are faders made by TKD in Japan. They go under the brands Flex Fader for Denon, CP-Pro for Numark, and CF-PCV etc. for Vestax; all of them use a long lasting carbon + conductive plastic film along with very sturdy brushes. The one issue with all of these designs is as you know contact faders require cleaning to work. Surprisingly not too often but still a bit of maintenance. Non-contact faders like the Ecler Eternal, Rane magnetic, and the Innofader are designed to get around this drawback. Our focus with the Innofader and Innobender is to allow DJs to use such a technology in whatever mixer they want, and we've expanded to DJ controllers. Again, no need to elaborate too much because I'm representing my own Innofader design, so I'd say try posting your questions on a bunch of other community s with many scratch DJs like Skratchlounge, DJ Forums, and Serato. I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses! |
| Faustino Stringfellow 03.09.2011 | i am gigging regularly each week, and have done for the last 25 years... the only gear
failure was a mainboard on a DJM800 and two really poorly built VMS4's ..nuff said about those the better. Also if an NI unit failed after two months it's covered in the guarantee ... opening up the S4 for any reason invalidate the same guarantee .... so i have to be dubious over "there's a story on the net", because according to the net, there's fish on Mars, the last three presidents of the US have been aliens ... you get my drift. Facts are needed, not speculation. So I ask again, does it REALLY make a difference, is there ANYONE using one right now .... |
| Jenise Boun 03.09.2011 | Uhhhhh... Some DJays actually us the fader and the one on the S4 isn't so great. The innobender allows tighter cuts and much better performance and longevity. If you own an S4 and you beat your fader up like us, who gig out 4 evening s a week and scratch vinyl time code or CdJ like it's our duty you will need an innobender soon!!! There is a story somewhere on the net about a kid that got an S4, and 2 months after purchase his fader went byebye and he couldn't get a replacement anywhere!!! It's also called replacement parts, call NI and try to get one!! Hahaha that's a joke!! |
| Faustino Stringfellow 03.09.2011 |
Originally Posted by emarx
As for reliability Elliot...hmmmm .. I have a Gemini PMX-7 sat in the living room, bought way back in 1989, never serviced (cleaned and oiled a few times) nothing replaced ... and it still works perfectly well. BTW Elliot, it was one of the first scratch mixers, and i used it for almost 3 years non stop before upgrading to a unit with FX. and after that it was a backup unit. I'm interested to hear how many people have actually worn out a x-fader .. i certainly haven't and i'm not gentle with mixers ... all i do is clean them periodically and store them safely after gigs. |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 03.09.2011 | @JSM: The main point of the Innobender is not for sound quality but for reliability. The standard faders that most manufacturers use for MIDI controllers is usually something that a DJ who does lots of scratching can break in a matter of weeks. The S4 fader is one of those faders that's easy to break. This is not nearly as much of an issue for DJs who do mostly mixing and little or no scratching. Also the cost of the Innobender is due to several factors: - durability - longevity - ability to adjust cut-in and curve - special mechanical adapters to fit the very large fader into small spaces - ultra-smooth fader operation with tension adjust. Elliot |
| Faustino Stringfellow 03.09.2011 | Does this thing REALLY give you a $200 advantage/difference ? $165+$10+time fitting. Does the NI fader sound $200 less than this ... or is it a case of "must have new thing" syndrome. I have absolutely no problems with any of the manufactures faders, NI, Denon and Pioneer all perform well ... I just can't see the point of shelling out more cash for such a small improvement. I can see the point with crappy devices like the VMS4 etc. but with high end gear ... Is there a real need ???? Honestly can you hear the difference? |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 02.09.2011 | We ship direct orders out of Taiwan. For how much please go to the link I posted. |
| Jenise Boun 02.09.2011 | How much and when can I order?!?! Where are you located? |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 02.09.2011 | @DJGRiM: Try again now. AGI Pro already has them, as to DJ Deals and TTL PSSL is getting them in a few days Lighttech in Germany and many Australian retailers have them. Worst case if you can't find them locally you can order direct: http://audioinn.startlogic.com/store/ I can either sell you direct or refer you to someone who will handle your order. We have plenty of stock. Elliot |
| Jenise Boun 01.09.2011 | So I tried the day I made that post. I called innofader direct, after calling all the major gear suppliers, no one had it. When I called innofader they said it was gonna be a while before it was released and he told me that the fader needed for skinny applications would be the innobender. They designed it especially for the tight fitting controllers. So I will check with them again this week, I hope it's out soon, you can't order straight from innobender so I have to go through a dealer, we shall see! Thanks for posting! |
| Nathanial Belenkaya 01.09.2011 | @DJGRIM: The part you need to search for is "Innobender". Most of the major retailers in the US and in some parts of the world have already stocked it. Here's a link to it: http://www.innofader.com/products.php?id=11 Elliot |
| Jenise Boun 01.08.2011 | Yeah I tried that, Telly gave me some good info, but I still cant get part numbers that I need and specs like that, thanks for the info though! GRiM |
| Leeanna Ayla 01.08.2011 | Telly posted an inofader install maybe search the community for that. |
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