Xone DB4 Digital Output/Volume Control Issue, Please Help

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Xone DB4 Digital Output/Volume Control Issue, Please Help
Posted on: 28.02.2013 by Joseph Maeda
Hello out there,

I am using
2x CDJ 2000 connected to Xone DB4 using SPDIF cables. I am using the master out XLR (from DB4) to TRS on an Apogee Ensemble. Running Mac Pro 10.7.5, Ableton 8.3.4, Maestro 2.5.57.
The digital source (same for both configurations) is AIFF files in RekordBox on the same MacPro connected via ethernet router.

Everything works perfect in that configuration. I just realized that I should simply use the digital output of my DB4 and run a SPDIF cable directly to the Ensemble instead, to avoid unnecessary D/A, A/D conversions.

I tried to run the SPDIF cable from the DB4 "Digital Record Out" to the SPDIF IN (Ensemble) and it works with the exception of the master volume on the DB4. The master volume (DB4) does not do anything to the level of the Digital Record Out (SPDIF). The gain and channel fader work, just not the master volume. It is "set by default" at a reasonably loud level and is not effected by the master volume control on the DB4.

I checked the "Record Out" settings in the menu of the DB4 and tried all available options (mix, clean feed, phones), same condition in all 3, everything works but the master volume (headphone volume in the case of phones setting)of the DB4. I tried to install the firmware update on the DB4 and still nothing. Contacted A&H and still nothing.

I love the idea of skipping the unneeded steps of D/A, A/D conversion and keeping it all digital. I would really like to make use of this digital output feature but the master volume is needed. It's killing me softly.

Can anybody out there help or point me in the direction of help in some way?

Also, while I'm here, does anyone know where to find information on the new features of the DB4 firmware update? I am very interested in "Cascade Mode" but can't seem to find it anywhere in the DB4 settings or info online about it. Thanks a ton for taking the time to read this. Have a great day.
Danae Dumler
28.02.2013
Originally Posted by mjo
The gain and channel fader work, just not the master volume. It is "set by default" at a reasonably loud level and is not effected by the master volume control on the DB4.
Pretty sure that's the same as any digital mixer I've ever used. I believe there was a setting on one of them to turn it down -3 or -6 db but hardly a volume control. If the default is reasonable, why do you need to mess with it? Make changes on your Apogee if you can, or in the software. Or if you're just recording mixes, deal with the Master level as it is and adjust it later; the signal's all digital so you shouldn't have issues with it being too low (and it certainly won't be clipping by default). If the Master is too loud for some reason you could of course just keep your gains lower on your channels and work with it that way, but are you using the Master volume to do some kind of tricks or anything? Normally that's a set-it-and-forget-it volume anyway.

Also is there a reason you have to go through the Apogee? You could go USB directly to your Mac and record that way and save a lot of aggravation. Doesn't solve the volume issue though; I agree volume control would be nice but it's just not a commonly found feature in REC out (analogue or digital). And normally you don't want the Master volume to affect the rec out so you can play as loud or quiet as you need to in your environment but still make recordings with consistent volume levels.
Kasandra Kreindler
28.02.2013
Originally Posted by xs2man
I am not entirely sure what the cascadeing fx's does, but presumably it means just applying a second effect to the track? I'm sure this could be accomplished somehow using Traktor and the soundcard coupled with the input matrix.
yea wouldnt you use the input matrix and 'copy' track to another ch and use that FX ch to chain an additional effect onto what fx ur putting on with the original ch (if that makes sense)
Joseph Maeda
28.02.2013		Hello out there,

I am using
2x CDJ 2000 connected to Xone DB4 using SPDIF cables. I am using the master out XLR (from DB4) to TRS on an Apogee Ensemble. Running Mac Pro 10.7.5, Ableton 8.3.4, Maestro 2.5.57.
The digital source (same for both configurations) is AIFF files in RekordBox on the same MacPro connected via ethernet router.

Everything works perfect in that configuration. I just realized that I should simply use the digital output of my DB4 and run a SPDIF cable directly to the Ensemble instead, to avoid unnecessary D/A, A/D conversions.

I tried to run the SPDIF cable from the DB4 "Digital Record Out" to the SPDIF IN (Ensemble) and it works with the exception of the master volume on the DB4. The master volume (DB4) does not do anything to the level of the Digital Record Out (SPDIF). The gain and channel fader work, just not the master volume. It is "set by default" at a reasonably loud level and is not effected by the master volume control on the DB4.

I checked the "Record Out" settings in the menu of the DB4 and tried all available options (mix, clean feed, phones), same condition in all 3, everything works but the master volume (headphone volume in the case of phones setting)of the DB4. I tried to install the firmware update on the DB4 and still nothing. Contacted A&H and still nothing.

I love the idea of skipping the unneeded steps of D/A, A/D conversion and keeping it all digital. I would really like to make use of this digital output feature but the master volume is needed. It's killing me softly.

Can anybody out there help or point me in the direction of help in some way?

Also, while I'm here, does anyone know where to find information on the new features of the DB4 firmware update? I am very interested in "Cascade Mode" but can't seem to find it anywhere in the DB4 settings or info online about it. Thanks a ton for taking the time to read this. Have a great day.
Tamela Batara
28.02.2013		The DB4 has an 8 channel soundcard built-in, so 4 stereo pairs (both in and out of the mixer).

Mine is set up to send the master out over channels 1 & 2, and Traktor is set up to record on these channels. But any recording software should be able to record this way, so set up Ableton to record whatever channels you send your master output to.

The only way I can believe of at the moment to do what you are wanting fx wise is to, for example, have a source on channel 1, apply effect, then send out of the mixer over USB on 2 channels to your software, then send it back to the next channel, in this case 2. Then repeat as often as you wish. In theory, you should be able to control volumes and eq's and everything from channel 1 alone as its output will obviously affect the rest of the chain.

What I generally do though is just use the input matrix to double up on the software channel, so I will have, for example, channels 1 & 2 on the mixer receiving the same source. I then apply the fx individually on each channel. Of course, this means I am not applying, for example, a delay, then a reverb over the track with delay, but I can get multiple fx on the same source.
Joseph Maeda
28.02.2013		DJ Proben,

Thanks, that all makes sense. I will just deal with the lack of master volume and stick to the gains. I believe that may be better than having the extra conversions but I will listen and compare to see differences.

I have a question about running the USB directly to the computer for recording. Would I just be sending a digital signal out to the computer that could be selected as an input in Ableton? Im not sure I am getting this entirely. What is the signal being sent over USB and how do I get that signal into ableton?

thanks for taking the time to help
Joseph Maeda
28.02.2013		I can select the track on any or all channels and run effects independently on each channel but that leaves me with extra channel controls (eq, trim, filter, etc) when all I want to use is the effects processor.

In my mind what I want to accomplish is to control a track on one channel only, but somehow chain just the effects processors of other channels for additional effects without the, in this case, hassle of all additional channel controls.
Also establishing a signal flow through the different FX processors in a specified order (ie: delay 1st, reverb 2nd, damage 3rd, etc)
Hopefully that makes sense.

Also, any thoughts about the "Digital Record Output" not being effected by the master volume control of the DB4? Im having a hard time believing that it is supposed to function this way.

Thanks Guys
Danae Dumler
28.02.2013
Originally Posted by mjo
The gain and channel fader work, just not the master volume. It is "set by default" at a reasonably loud level and is not effected by the master volume control on the DB4.
Pretty sure that's the same as any digital mixer I've ever used. I believe there was a setting on one of them to turn it down -3 or -6 db but hardly a volume control. If the default is reasonable, why do you need to mess with it? Make changes on your Apogee if you can, or in the software. Or if you're just recording mixes, deal with the Master level as it is and adjust it later; the signal's all digital so you shouldn't have issues with it being too low (and it certainly won't be clipping by default). If the Master is too loud for some reason you could of course just keep your gains lower on your channels and work with it that way, but are you using the Master volume to do some kind of tricks or anything? Normally that's a set-it-and-forget-it volume anyway.

Also is there a reason you have to go through the Apogee? You could go USB directly to your Mac and record that way and save a lot of aggravation. Doesn't solve the volume issue though; I agree volume control would be nice but it's just not a commonly found feature in REC out (analogue or digital). And normally you don't want the Master volume to affect the rec out so you can play as loud or quiet as you need to in your environment but still make recordings with consistent volume levels.
Kasandra Kreindler
28.02.2013
Originally Posted by xs2man
I am not entirely sure what the cascadeing fx's does, but presumably it means just applying a second effect to the track? I'm sure this could be accomplished somehow using Traktor and the soundcard coupled with the input matrix.
yea wouldnt you use the input matrix and 'copy' track to another ch and use that FX ch to chain an additional effect onto what fx ur putting on with the original ch (if that makes sense)
Tamela Batara
28.02.2013		I am not entirely sure what the cascadeing fx's does, but presumably it means just applying a second effect to the track? I'm sure this could be accomplished somehow using Traktor and the soundcard coupled with the input matrix.
Joseph Maeda
28.02.2013		So this is normal? No master volume control over the record out? That seems ridiculous, no?

Cascade is DB2 only? Is there any way to replicate it in the DB4?

these are pretty disappointing things to hear.

Thanks
Tamela Batara
28.02.2013		I believe that's a db2 thing, the cascade.

I haven't seen any volume control for record outs either. Very annoying.

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