Snares as beatgrid markers in Traktor

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Snares as beatgrid markers in Traktor
Posted on: 12.03.2013 by Julee Bevevino
Hi,

I noticed in a couple of videos that Ean advises putting a Beatgrid marker on a snare rather than a kick (in Traktor Pro 2) as its more reliable. The problem I've had with this is my first Hot Cue then is placed on that randomn snare and so not much use as a Hot Cue. Is there any way of avoiding this other than just using the kick instead?

Only recently discovered this site. Its mighty fine. Wish these sort of resources were around when I started DJing back in 1993. So much more fun now!

Many thanks.
Marshall Aby
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
is the beat supposed to be in the middle or beginning of the kick waveform?
Not in the middle, because then everytime you hit the hotcue you'll cut the transient off. Plus you'll get clicks when you loop breakdowns just before a beat comes back in.
Sonja Roybal
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by loverocket
Is it just me or does Traktor do an excellent job of beatgridding automatically ???

I just load new tracks into Traktor and 98% of the time the beatgrid is perfect.

I would say that 1 out every 50 tracks I might just have to delete the first marker and replace it at the first beat.

Why does beatgridding come up so often ?

>
I would say it gets about 80% of dnb right. It has a really hard time finding the downbeat and tunes will be off by a measure. It does a pretty poor job with anything that's not straight forward, boom TSS boom boom TSS. I don't expect it to get everything right. A lot of dnb is syncopated.
Danae Dumler
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by loverocket
Serato may find the BPM but it does not grid the track which is why SYNC is possible.

I'm curious to see how Serato DJ handles the job.

>
Yeah I just mean Serato's way of dealing with transients. If I'm playing a lot of funk out live I'd much prefer to do so with Serato than Traktor -- less babysitting of the software to worry about and I can focus on listening and mixing.
Doreen Schurle
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by loverocket
Is it just me or does Traktor do an excellent job of beatgridding automatically ???

I just load new tracks into Traktor and 98% of the time the beatgrid is perfect.

I would say that 1 out every 50 tracks I might just have to delete the first marker and replace it at the first beat.

Why does beatgridding come up so often ?

>
Yes. And +1 to the bolded bit.

Typically with EDM, the major issue is that occasionally it'll mis-detect the first beat, especially on trance tracks which start with pads + vocals.
Sonja Roybal
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
Another question, is the beat supposed to be in the middle or beginning of the kick waveform? I don't believe my ears can really tell the difference when I match it up against the metronome, or maybe I just haven't trained my ears yet.
I believe a lot of that depends on what part of the tune it is. If you're in a real busy verse, the drum waveform won't be as defined because there's more action. If you're gridding off the intro or outro, in my experience its nearly always at the beginning of the kick. I definitely wouldn't count on that though. You're better off gridding by ear.
Doreen Schurle
13.03.2013
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
Another question, is the beat supposed to be in the middle or beginning of the kick waveform? I don't believe my ears can really tell the difference when I match it up against the metronome, or maybe I just haven't trained my ears yet.
It depends on the track itself, specifically the attack/decay envelope used when designing the drum beat in the first place. I've got tracks where the peak is half way through the waveform, and others where its right at the start.
Julee Bevevino
12.03.2013		Hi,

I noticed in a couple of videos that Ean advises putting a Beatgrid marker on a snare rather than a kick (in Traktor Pro 2) as its more reliable. The problem I've had with this is my first Hot Cue then is placed on that randomn snare and so not much use as a Hot Cue. Is there any way of avoiding this other than just using the kick instead?

Only recently discovered this site. Its mighty fine. Wish these sort of resources were around when I started DJing back in 1993. So much more fun now!

Many thanks.
Marshall Aby
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
is the beat supposed to be in the middle or beginning of the kick waveform?
Not in the middle, because then everytime you hit the hotcue you'll cut the transient off. Plus you'll get clicks when you loop breakdowns just before a beat comes back in.
Sonja Roybal
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by loverocket
Is it just me or does Traktor do an excellent job of beatgridding automatically ???

I just load new tracks into Traktor and 98% of the time the beatgrid is perfect.

I would say that 1 out every 50 tracks I might just have to delete the first marker and replace it at the first beat.

Why does beatgridding come up so often ?

>
I would say it gets about 80% of dnb right. It has a really hard time finding the downbeat and tunes will be off by a measure. It does a pretty poor job with anything that's not straight forward, boom TSS boom boom TSS. I don't expect it to get everything right. A lot of dnb is syncopated.
Danae Dumler
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by loverocket
Serato may find the BPM but it does not grid the track which is why SYNC is possible.

I'm curious to see how Serato DJ handles the job.

>
Yeah I just mean Serato's way of dealing with transients. If I'm playing a lot of funk out live I'd much prefer to do so with Serato than Traktor -- less babysitting of the software to worry about and I can focus on listening and mixing.
Jerica Salava
12.03.2013		Serato may find the BPM but it does not grid the track which is why SYNC is possible.

I'm curious to see how Serato DJ handles the job.

>
Danae Dumler
12.03.2013		(1) Please don't follow Ean's advice about gridding on the snares. The advice makes sense for listening and beatmatching by ear - the snares are easier to hear - but if you put your first gridmarker on the snare, it's almost never on the "1", and you lose any advantage of beatcounting and phrasing that goes with beatgrids. This question comes up often enough I almost wish Ean would make a video rescinding that advice, hehe.... If you do choose to do it that way anyway, listen to where in the count the snare is and beatgrid ALL your tracks that way - otherwise it's a total mess if you have some gridded on the snare and others gridded on the "1". Ugh....

(2) I find Traktor's autogrid dead on with most of my tech house, house, minimal, and other steady four-on-the-floor genres. With hip-hop, dubstep, dnb, it is probably on track about 80+% of the time - still pretty good but definitely needing some attention to the grids; usually just moving the gridmarker but occasionally adjusting the tempo (usually it sets a harmonic of the regular tempo; e.g. 140 bpm becomes 105). With funk and rock and other music with live drumming, however, it's pretty much worthless. Terrible job and I almost always delete the grid and start over or just leave them ungridded and play by ear. Serato is much better software when it comes to such tracks in my opinion.
Doreen Schurle
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by loverocket
Is it just me or does Traktor do an excellent job of beatgridding automatically ???

I just load new tracks into Traktor and 98% of the time the beatgrid is perfect.

I would say that 1 out every 50 tracks I might just have to delete the first marker and replace it at the first beat.

Why does beatgridding come up so often ?

>
Yes. And +1 to the bolded bit.

Typically with EDM, the major issue is that occasionally it'll mis-detect the first beat, especially on trance tracks which start with pads + vocals.
Jerica Salava
12.03.2013		Is it just me or does Traktor do an excellent job of beatgridding automatically ???

I just load new tracks into Traktor and 98% of the time the beatgrid is perfect.

I would say that 1 out every 50 tracks I might just have to delete the first marker and replace it at the first beat.

Why does beatgridding come up so often ?

>
Sonja Roybal
12.03.2013
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
Another question, is the beat supposed to be in the middle or beginning of the kick waveform? I don't believe my ears can really tell the difference when I match it up against the metronome, or maybe I just haven't trained my ears yet.
I believe a lot of that depends on what part of the tune it is. If you're in a real busy verse, the drum waveform won't be as defined because there's more action. If you're gridding off the intro or outro, in my experience its nearly always at the beginning of the kick. I definitely wouldn't count on that though. You're better off gridding by ear.
Doreen Schurle
13.03.2013
Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50
Another question, is the beat supposed to be in the middle or beginning of the kick waveform? I don't believe my ears can really tell the difference when I match it up against the metronome, or maybe I just haven't trained my ears yet.
It depends on the track itself, specifically the attack/decay envelope used when designing the drum beat in the first place. I've got tracks where the peak is half way through the waveform, and others where its right at the start.
Gaynell Rydberg
13.03.2013		Another question, is the beat supposed to be in the middle or beginning of the kick waveform? I don't believe my ears can really tell the difference when I match it up against the metronome, or maybe I just haven't trained my ears yet.
Julee Bevevino
13.03.2013		Ok fair enough, sounds like using the kick for the beatgrid makes the most sense. 90% of my stuff is house or at least 4/4 so makes sense.

Cheers all.
Sonja Roybal
12.03.2013		If you beatgrid drum and bass by the snare, it's only going to work if the tune is 2 step. If the tune has any kind of rhythm, it's going to be a mess. Beatgrid off the downbeat (first kick) IMO.

Also, the easiest way I've found to beat grid is to turn tempo sync on, beatmatch the tune manually and line up the phase meter until it's at the middle point. Basically instead of using the metronome, you're using another tune. You can beatgrid your tune while mixing instead of beatgridding it as a separate exercise.
Jerica Salava
12.03.2013		I believe Ean recommends this for newbies when beatgridding tracks that are NOT 4 on the floor kicks.

If you try to beatgrid a hip hop track and get the grid marker on the wrong kick you can screw it up.

It's way easier to hit the snares as they will usually be on the quarter notes.

I always beatgrid my house tracks on the kicks.

>
Basil Forshee
12.03.2013		I'm doing it like Ean, except for the snare thingy. Just place a marker at the downbeat and then with the tick on adjust it. Mapped < and > keys on my keyboard to be grid adjustments.
Doreen Schurle
12.03.2013		Traktor Preferences --> Analyze Options --> Untick "Store Beatmarker as Hotcue"

Having your beatmarker on a snare is a bloody stupid thing to do though tbh, if you ask me, as it means you can't use quantize with hotcues, to drop a beat, as your hotcues will always snap to the snare instead of the kick.

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