Best way to mix trance with smooth transitions I'd like to get some feedback from those that mix trance music using Traktor Pro (or other software for that matter) how do you do your transitions from one track to next?
Do you use channel faders only or X-fader?
Do you kill the bass on one and bring it in the other? What bout Hi's and Mid's?
Typically at what point on the track that is playing do you bring in the next track? With trance usually there is buildup, then breakdown, and then it will build again. Do you cue in the next track right after the 2nd build up again and bring it's volume all the way in at the 64 bar where you cut the bass off first tracking and up the bass on new track?
If you give some feedback and pointers on what you to make smooth transitions from one track to next that would be helpful. |
Kristofer Krauel
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by lucidstrings
Harmonics. Phase. Eq. No cross faders only line faders subtle eq changes till 7(5% or so then when outro of track a ends make sure melody or start of epic kicks in on track b .. Profit
Not likely profit most newer djs who have not been djing since mid 90s and eary 2000 do not realize that trance is not as easy as some believe. Kind of like mixing prog house from the 00-04 era long tracks subtle breaks and so on.
The poster early referring to big room trance. I believe he means a sub genre that was called nrg but a sub of epic. Heavy use of supersaws strong deep bass lines hh sizzles claps so on. In bpm range 138-144 a large amount of people believed this style was easy to mix due to it sounding as though transitions are just slammed. This is highly incorrect and these people missed the 2 to 3 min mix that happened prior to the start of track a outro.
Also mixing today's trance 128 to 136 is nothing like mixing trance prior to 2005
Well said. |
Lannie Kutay
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Era 7
people are overbelieveing again...
over believeing things is the only way, that djs as a collective group have risen to the level we have.
its the only we can perfect things and get better. |
Vaughn Malbon
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by joemann002
What about EQ's? Do you just have the bass of the incoming track at like 9 o'clock and gradually bring it in while dropping the bass of the outgoing track? Any changes with the Hi's or Mids?
If they harmonically match you might not have to do anything, It really depends on the tracks, there is no hard and fast rule. If the outro is running a bass line you could cut the bass from the incoming track. Trance ussually has a long first section before the break which often does not fully realise the theme, you could try leaving in the bass line form the original track until it hits the break. Then cut the original track and add back in the Bass, but its hard to give rules. I would suggest listening to some of the trance albums out there that have continuous mixes included, you can then listen to the originals and how they were mixed together.
But if your mixing trance and not re-mapping the tracks by cue juggling, a more A-B type mix, then it will be a combination of killing basses, letting drum tracks loop, or you could cut the intro section of the second track altogether and go straight to the break, Leave the first track loop and provided the tracks harmonically match you can often let the break/build up of the new track play over the old track loop and kill that when the main theme comes in on the new track.
Its all about musicality, there are no hard and fast rules. |
Alberta Cuttler
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Morior
Trance ussually has a nice steady outro as well which is often just the drum beat. To make it really simple stick a loop on 16 bars of it and it couldent be easier to mix in the next track. Mixing trance is about the feel, but dont be afraid to throw in some minimal house etc as well as these go nicely together.
What about EQ's? Do you just have the bass of the incoming track at like 9 o'clock and gradually bring it in while dropping the bass of the outgoing track? Any changes with the Hi's or Mids? |
Kristofer Krauel
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by balakoth
Second this... Trance has to many damn breaks, gotta keep it going some how
You shouldn't be mixing trance if you believe it has too many breaks. That's the whole point if trance music. Boom, boom, boom, epic breakdown, boom, boom, boom, epic breakdown, boom, boom, boom. ;p
Trance suits 2 minute mixing as a general rule of thumb but you can choose to do whatever works.
I also believe EQ mixing has become important with this genre. It used to be (back in the 90's and 2000's) that with big room trance especially, that you wouldn't be subtle with your transition at all. You'd just bang it in and bring it out. Thankfully the genre has moved on since then. |
Shawn Vanhaitsma
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Personally when I mix trance (especially vocal trance), I generally have 3-4 minute overlaps of each track.
Second this... Trance has to many damn breaks, gotta keep it going some how |
Lannie Kutay
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by joemann002
So you let them mix in together for like 64 bars and then at that point do you bring the bass on the next track and kill the bass on track that is palying or do you a gradual increase of bass on incoming track and killing of outgoing track and try to get the eq's of the incoming track at 12 o'clock at the 64 bar and from there you have killed the bass on the outgoing track and start to lower the channel fader on the outgoing channel?
Yup you got it, give it a shot, see if it works for you. |
Alberta Cuttler
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by 031999
When working with the long transitions, I usually have my current track with the eqs at roughly 12 o clock,but that varies based on how the track and the system sound. Then start my next track, get it beat matched, (you will need to have the fader down and the eqs up for this). Then kill your eqs and Raise the fader, then just work the track in with the eqs, and also pull the other track out with the eqs also.
Once you have your next track beat matched and ready to go, you bring up it's channel fader all the way up again and the eq's on that channel..are they all killed or pretty much close to the zero (7'oclock position)? Or do you have hi's, mid's, and low's at different levels?
So you let them mix in together for like 64 bars and then at that point do you bring the bass on the next track and kill the bass on track that is palying or do you a gradual increase of bass on incoming track and killing of outgoing track and try to get the eq's of the incoming track at 12 o'clock at the 64 bar and from there you have killed the bass on the outgoing track and start to lower the channel fader on the outgoing channel? |
Kristofer Krauel
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by lucidstrings
Harmonics. Phase. Eq. No cross faders only line faders subtle eq changes till 7(5% or so then when outro of track a ends make sure melody or start of epic kicks in on track b .. Profit
Not likely profit most newer djs who have not been djing since mid 90s and eary 2000 do not realize that trance is not as easy as some believe. Kind of like mixing prog house from the 00-04 era long tracks subtle breaks and so on.
The poster early referring to big room trance. I believe he means a sub genre that was called nrg but a sub of epic. Heavy use of supersaws strong deep bass lines hh sizzles claps so on. In bpm range 138-144 a large amount of people believed this style was easy to mix due to it sounding as though transitions are just slammed. This is highly incorrect and these people missed the 2 to 3 min mix that happened prior to the start of track a outro.
Also mixing today's trance 128 to 136 is nothing like mixing trance prior to 2005
Well said. |
Libbie Orion
05.04.2013 | i only start the transition when there is a like 14 seconds of pure silence.
When the first beer bottle is hurled over the booth , i know i went like 2 seconds too long |
Trista Karle
05.04.2013 | Harmonics. Phase. Eq. No cross faders only line faders subtle eq changes till 7(5% or so then when outro of track a ends make sure melody or start of epic kicks in on track b .. Profit
Not likely profit most newer djs who have not been djing since mid 90s and eary 2000 do not realize that trance is not as easy as some believe. Kind of like mixing prog house from the 00-04 era long tracks subtle breaks and so on.
The poster early referring to big room trance. I believe he means a sub genre that was called nrg but a sub of epic. Heavy use of supersaws strong deep bass lines hh sizzles claps so on. In bpm range 138-144 a large amount of people believed this style was easy to mix due to it sounding as though transitions are just slammed. This is highly incorrect and these people missed the 2 to 3 min mix that happened prior to the start of track a outro.
Also mixing today's trance 128 to 136 is nothing like mixing trance prior to 2005 |
Lannie Kutay
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Era 7
people are overbelieveing again...
over believeing things is the only way, that djs as a collective group have risen to the level we have.
its the only we can perfect things and get better. |
Tesha Freudenstein
05.04.2013 | people are overbelieveing again... |
Jeffrey Akinsanya
05.04.2013 | EQ EQ EQ
EQing in phase as bringing sounds up/down in line with the phasing on the music |
Latoria Kavulich
05.04.2013 | start mixing 3 minutes from the end. touch that crossfader and i slap you |
Vaughn Malbon
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by joemann002
What about EQ's? Do you just have the bass of the incoming track at like 9 o'clock and gradually bring it in while dropping the bass of the outgoing track? Any changes with the Hi's or Mids?
If they harmonically match you might not have to do anything, It really depends on the tracks, there is no hard and fast rule. If the outro is running a bass line you could cut the bass from the incoming track. Trance ussually has a long first section before the break which often does not fully realise the theme, you could try leaving in the bass line form the original track until it hits the break. Then cut the original track and add back in the Bass, but its hard to give rules. I would suggest listening to some of the trance albums out there that have continuous mixes included, you can then listen to the originals and how they were mixed together.
But if your mixing trance and not re-mapping the tracks by cue juggling, a more A-B type mix, then it will be a combination of killing basses, letting drum tracks loop, or you could cut the intro section of the second track altogether and go straight to the break, Leave the first track loop and provided the tracks harmonically match you can often let the break/build up of the new track play over the old track loop and kill that when the main theme comes in on the new track.
Its all about musicality, there are no hard and fast rules. |
Alberta Cuttler
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Morior
Trance ussually has a nice steady outro as well which is often just the drum beat. To make it really simple stick a loop on 16 bars of it and it couldent be easier to mix in the next track. Mixing trance is about the feel, but dont be afraid to throw in some minimal house etc as well as these go nicely together.
What about EQ's? Do you just have the bass of the incoming track at like 9 o'clock and gradually bring it in while dropping the bass of the outgoing track? Any changes with the Hi's or Mids? |
Vaughn Malbon
05.04.2013 | Trance ussually has a nice steady outro as well which is often just the drum beat. To make it really simple stick a loop on 16 bars of it and it couldent be easier to mix in the next track. Mixing trance is about the feel, but dont be afraid to throw in some minimal house etc as well as these go nicely together. |
Kristofer Krauel
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by balakoth
Second this... Trance has to many damn breaks, gotta keep it going some how
You shouldn't be mixing trance if you believe it has too many breaks. That's the whole point if trance music. Boom, boom, boom, epic breakdown, boom, boom, boom, epic breakdown, boom, boom, boom. ;p
Trance suits 2 minute mixing as a general rule of thumb but you can choose to do whatever works.
I also believe EQ mixing has become important with this genre. It used to be (back in the 90's and 2000's) that with big room trance especially, that you wouldn't be subtle with your transition at all. You'd just bang it in and bring it out. Thankfully the genre has moved on since then. |
Shawn Vanhaitsma
05.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Personally when I mix trance (especially vocal trance), I generally have 3-4 minute overlaps of each track.
Second this... Trance has to many damn breaks, gotta keep it going some how |
Doreen Schurle
04.04.2013 | Personally when I mix trance (especially vocal trance), I generally have 3-4 minute overlaps of each track. |
Lannie Kutay
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by joemann002
So you let them mix in together for like 64 bars and then at that point do you bring the bass on the next track and kill the bass on track that is palying or do you a gradual increase of bass on incoming track and killing of outgoing track and try to get the eq's of the incoming track at 12 o'clock at the 64 bar and from there you have killed the bass on the outgoing track and start to lower the channel fader on the outgoing channel?
Yup you got it, give it a shot, see if it works for you. |
Alberta Cuttler
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by 031999
When working with the long transitions, I usually have my current track with the eqs at roughly 12 o clock,but that varies based on how the track and the system sound. Then start my next track, get it beat matched, (you will need to have the fader down and the eqs up for this). Then kill your eqs and Raise the fader, then just work the track in with the eqs, and also pull the other track out with the eqs also.
Once you have your next track beat matched and ready to go, you bring up it's channel fader all the way up again and the eq's on that channel..are they all killed or pretty much close to the zero (7'oclock position)? Or do you have hi's, mid's, and low's at different levels?
So you let them mix in together for like 64 bars and then at that point do you bring the bass on the next track and kill the bass on track that is palying or do you a gradual increase of bass on incoming track and killing of outgoing track and try to get the eq's of the incoming track at 12 o'clock at the 64 bar and from there you have killed the bass on the outgoing track and start to lower the channel fader on the outgoing channel? |
Lannie Kutay
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by joemann002
When you are just mixing with eqs how are your eqs setup? On the current track do you have the hi/mid/low at the 12 o'clock postion and on the track that you will bringing in do you have the low killed and hi/mid like at 9 o'clock position? Can you share a bit more details on how your do it? Do you have both channel faders at max then when just working with the eqs?
When working with the long transitions, I usually have my current track with the eqs at roughly 12 o clock,but that varies based on how the track and the system sound. Then start my next track, get it beat matched, (you will need to have the fader down and the eqs up for this). Then kill your eqs and Raise the fader, then just work the track in with the eqs, and also pull the other track out with the eqs also. |
Alberta Cuttler
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by 031999
With trance you gonna wanna do very long mix transitions, like 32 and sometimes 64 bar transitions. That will make it very fluid. Also when I mix trance I don't even use the faders I do it all with eq work, which is how I've been mixing a lot of stuff lately.
When you are just mixing with eqs how are your eqs setup? On the current track do you have the hi/mid/low at the 12 o'clock postion and on the track that you will bringing in do you have the low killed and hi/mid like at 9 o'clock position? Can you share a bit more details on how your do it? Do you have both channel faders at max then when just working with the eqs? |
Alberta Cuttler
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Landsnark
These are the kind of decisions you get to make as the DJ. But, one comment: trance is a great example of a genre that benefits greatly from key mixing.
Originally Posted by kooper1980
I'd be interested to know what makes trance easier to mix than say house, minimal, techno or any of the other 4 to the floor genres? Snares don't make something easier or harder to mix.
And agreed on the harmonics comment. The melodies found in any form of trance make harmonic mixing a preference.
When you are saying "harmonic mixing" or "key mixing" are you saying I should have the key lock on or more along the lines of choosing songs that are within keys of each other to make smooth mixes and transitions? I believe there is chart or method to follow that shows you can go 1 key before or after the current key you are playing that will keep the transitions smooth. |
Lannie Kutay
04.04.2013 | With trance you gonna wanna do very long mix transitions, like 32 and sometimes 64 bar transitions. That will make it very fluid. Also when I mix trance I don't even use the faders I do it all with eq work, which is how I've been mixing a lot of stuff lately. |
Jetta Drenzek
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by kooper1980
I'd be interested to know what makes trance easier to mix than say house, minimal, techno or any of the other 4 to the floor genres? Snares don't make something easier or harder to mix.
And agreed on the harmonics comment. The melodies found in any form of trance make harmonic mixing a preference.
A snare does make it harder to mix, because you've at least got to get the down beat right :P
And yeah, definitely harmonic mixing with trance. |
Kristofer Krauel
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Sambo
Are you joking? There could not be an easier to genre to mix. Trance doesn't even have a snare!
If it's original mixes, it's generally 1:20, often 0:30, every track is different. Look at the track layout and turn on your minute markers and you can estimate a rough mix time. Just press sync, kill the bass, fade/drop it in, then pull bass from the first song as you add to the next, until you can fade the first song out.
I'd be interested to know what makes trance easier to mix than say house, minimal, techno or any of the other 4 to the floor genres? Snares don't make something easier or harder to mix.
And agreed on the harmonics comment. The melodies found in any form of trance make harmonic mixing a preference. |
Judi Sissel
04.04.2013 |
Originally Posted by Landsnark
trance is a great example of a genre that benefits greatly from key mixing.
truth! |
Merlyn Birchfield
04.04.2013 | These are the kind of decisions you get to make as the DJ. But, one comment: trance is a great example of a genre that benefits greatly from key mixing. |
Jetta Drenzek
04.04.2013 | Are you joking? There could not be an easier to genre to mix. Trance doesn't even have a snare!
If it's original mixes, it's generally 1:20, often 0:30, every track is different. Look at the track layout and turn on your minute markers and you can estimate a rough mix time. Just press sync, kill the bass, fade/drop it in, then pull bass from the first song as you add to the next, until you can fade the first song out. |
