Haswell rMBP w/ Traktor

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Haswell rMBP w/ Traktor
Posted on: 26.10.2013 by Forrest Weeks
Now that we have the new Haswell powered rMBPs, do anyone have any idea/info about how they fair w/ traktor?

I'm curious cause Haswell is all about efficiency and saving power, one of the ways they achieved this is by switching b/w power states. Now anyone trying to reduce audio dropouts and glitches would know that switching b/w power states/frequency can actually cause a DPC spike. Also the fact that this cpu has the Iris pro gpu inside it, I'm kinda worried before I put my money on this new machine.
Rosenda Gossage
08.12.2013
Originally Posted by tranceaddict
Thank you so much ellgieff for sharing your experience, did you face the same issue without the scratch control? Like say if you just use it with x1 in external mode?

As I said earlier, the gpu inside the cpu might cause all these problems which is unique to this Haswell architecture. Also since haswell is hell bent on saving power, so I presume it switches frequently to various power states which might be cause of the dropouts and crackles.

Can you confirm if the problem exists even if you turn off your discrete graphics via that third party? I really hope NI comes out with a fix.
So, I've done as requested. The sound issues occur for me with CD Timecode, Vinyl Timecode and Internal Playback. Using the discrete graphics card makes no difference.

So I guess my show toevening will be old tunes I have on Vinyl or CDDA. *shrugs*
Forrest Weeks
07.12.2013
Originally Posted by ellgieff
I bought 15" rMBP (the model with the discrete graphics card).

I get crackles from my Audio 8 (using the 2.6.0 driver, TSP 2.6.5, and Mavericks). This occurs whether I'm using scratch control or CDDA through the card.

NI support has suggested things I've already tried (different USB cable, different USB port, turning all the energy saving stuff off). There's a thread on the NI community s - so I'm not the only person having this issue.

One guy has drawn a parallel with the issues when rMBP's first came, and has contacted the guy who came up with a workaround then (involved changing a kext on the MBP so that it was using the old 2.0 USB drivers) to see if he can sort something similar this time while we wait for NI to sort their driver out.

If I get a job in the meantime, I'm seriously considering switching to Serato.

Note that there's no way in Mavericks to force the discrete GPU without a third party program: gfxCardStatus
Thank you so much ellgieff for sharing your experience, did you face the same issue without the scratch control? Like say if you just use it with x1 in external mode?

As I said earlier, the gpu inside the cpu might cause all these problems which is unique to this Haswell architecture. Also since haswell is hell bent on saving power, so I presume it switches frequently to various power states which might be cause of the dropouts and crackles.

Can you confirm if the problem exists even if you turn off your discrete graphics via that third party? I really hope NI comes out with a fix.
Ara Tima
07.11.2013
Originally Posted by Chelan
I am need of a new Macbook myself ( my old one is about 7 years old). I am interested in one of these Haswell rMBP but have a few concerns and questions for you, the DJTT community.

Maybe not a big difference in either choice, but 8 GB or 16 GB regarding RAM, and 2 or 2.3 ghz when it comes to the CPU? I feel 8 would be enough, but am a bit concerned about future proofing and what RAM apps may require in the future (4-5 years out). I'd like to hold onto my next laptop for at least another 5 years. As far as cpu is related, I'm believeing 2.0 i7 quad core would be enough, but wasn't certain. Would I get a lower latency setting from a bit bigger processor or more RAM?

Has anyone picked up a new rMBP yet that could tell me if they are having good results without a dGPU? I wouldn't mind having the 750m one in mine, but wasn't looking to spend quite that much just to get one. I'm not a big gamer, nor do I work with 3D imaging. I do want to keep running Traktor 2.6 and beyond though.
Get as much RAM as you can afford, 16gb would be best to future proof, especially considering it's pretty much impossible to upgrade later.

Also the video card has absolutely no impact on Traktor performance...
Forrest Weeks
04.11.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
The 15" model without discrete graphics is much cheaper.
It is not, the rMBPs with or without having discrete graphics are priced the same. They have some stock configs where they bump up the ssd to 512 Gb/ram to 16 Gb and throw in the discrete graphics too, thats why it looks expensive.

Apart from few keyboard freezes (reported by users in apple's support community ) I haven't found anything so hope it should be fine
Forrest Weeks
27.10.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Almost all of the new Macbooks have no discrete graphics, so turning internal graphics off just isn't an option.

The 512/16 15" model comes with NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M. (http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/macbook-pro), apparently you can get one without the graphics at the same price. Since discrete graphics normally create problems like overheating I was intending to get one without it (like the 2011 MBPs faced severe overheating issues).


The link you provided is from a Windows user too so it doesn't exactly apply. "Latency spikes" have never really been an issue for Macs.
Oh, pardon my ignorance, so that means MBP users never face any dropouts/audio glitches/crackles due to latency issues? That would be really good news then.
Forrest Weeks
26.10.2013
Originally Posted by DJSigma
but Haswell isn't the first line of CPUs to switch between power states
Agreed, but that seems to be one of the main focus here (to save power), though I believe the internal graphics chip might cause more problem than the switching, I hope we can turn it off?

This guy here seemed to be experiencing crackles which were gone when he shifted to discrete graphics. I believe if Intel would have made the graphics on board (on motherboard) instead of on chip (on the processor) it would have been better?
Originally Posted by DJSigma
DPC is a term that applies to a feature of the Windows operating system, not OS X.
Okay then latency spikes maybe?
Forrest Weeks
26.10.2013		Now that we have the new Haswell powered rMBPs, do anyone have any idea/info about how they fair w/ traktor?

I'm curious cause Haswell is all about efficiency and saving power, one of the ways they achieved this is by switching b/w power states. Now anyone trying to reduce audio dropouts and glitches would know that switching b/w power states/frequency can actually cause a DPC spike. Also the fact that this cpu has the Iris pro gpu inside it, I'm kinda worried before I put my money on this new machine.
Rosenda Gossage
08.12.2013
Originally Posted by tranceaddict
Thank you so much ellgieff for sharing your experience, did you face the same issue without the scratch control? Like say if you just use it with x1 in external mode?

As I said earlier, the gpu inside the cpu might cause all these problems which is unique to this Haswell architecture. Also since haswell is hell bent on saving power, so I presume it switches frequently to various power states which might be cause of the dropouts and crackles.

Can you confirm if the problem exists even if you turn off your discrete graphics via that third party? I really hope NI comes out with a fix.
So, I've done as requested. The sound issues occur for me with CD Timecode, Vinyl Timecode and Internal Playback. Using the discrete graphics card makes no difference.

So I guess my show toevening will be old tunes I have on Vinyl or CDDA. *shrugs*
Dannie Dimora
08.12.2013		I just ordered a fully specced (2.6/16/1tb/gt750m) model.. I hope it doesn't give any such problems..
Forrest Weeks
07.12.2013
Originally Posted by ellgieff
I bought 15" rMBP (the model with the discrete graphics card).

I get crackles from my Audio 8 (using the 2.6.0 driver, TSP 2.6.5, and Mavericks). This occurs whether I'm using scratch control or CDDA through the card.

NI support has suggested things I've already tried (different USB cable, different USB port, turning all the energy saving stuff off). There's a thread on the NI community s - so I'm not the only person having this issue.

One guy has drawn a parallel with the issues when rMBP's first came, and has contacted the guy who came up with a workaround then (involved changing a kext on the MBP so that it was using the old 2.0 USB drivers) to see if he can sort something similar this time while we wait for NI to sort their driver out.

If I get a job in the meantime, I'm seriously considering switching to Serato.

Note that there's no way in Mavericks to force the discrete GPU without a third party program: gfxCardStatus
Thank you so much ellgieff for sharing your experience, did you face the same issue without the scratch control? Like say if you just use it with x1 in external mode?

As I said earlier, the gpu inside the cpu might cause all these problems which is unique to this Haswell architecture. Also since haswell is hell bent on saving power, so I presume it switches frequently to various power states which might be cause of the dropouts and crackles.

Can you confirm if the problem exists even if you turn off your discrete graphics via that third party? I really hope NI comes out with a fix.
Rosenda Gossage
06.12.2013		I bought 15" rMBP (the model with the discrete graphics card).

I get crackles from my Audio 8 (using the 2.6.0 driver, TSP 2.6.5, and Mavericks). This occurs whether I'm using scratch control or CDDA through the card.

NI support has suggested things I've already tried (different USB cable, different USB port, turning all the energy saving stuff off). There's a thread on the NI community s - so I'm not the only person having this issue.

One guy has drawn a parallel with the issues when rMBP's first came, and has contacted the guy who came up with a workaround then (involved changing a kext on the MBP so that it was using the old 2.0 USB drivers) to see if he can sort something similar this time while we wait for NI to sort their driver out.

If I get a job in the meantime, I'm seriously considering switching to Serato.

Note that there's no way in Mavericks to force the discrete GPU without a third party program: gfxCardStatus
Ara Tima
07.11.2013
Originally Posted by Chelan
I am need of a new Macbook myself ( my old one is about 7 years old). I am interested in one of these Haswell rMBP but have a few concerns and questions for you, the DJTT community.

Maybe not a big difference in either choice, but 8 GB or 16 GB regarding RAM, and 2 or 2.3 ghz when it comes to the CPU? I feel 8 would be enough, but am a bit concerned about future proofing and what RAM apps may require in the future (4-5 years out). I'd like to hold onto my next laptop for at least another 5 years. As far as cpu is related, I'm believeing 2.0 i7 quad core would be enough, but wasn't certain. Would I get a lower latency setting from a bit bigger processor or more RAM?

Has anyone picked up a new rMBP yet that could tell me if they are having good results without a dGPU? I wouldn't mind having the 750m one in mine, but wasn't looking to spend quite that much just to get one. I'm not a big gamer, nor do I work with 3D imaging. I do want to keep running Traktor 2.6 and beyond though.
Get as much RAM as you can afford, 16gb would be best to future proof, especially considering it's pretty much impossible to upgrade later.

Also the video card has absolutely no impact on Traktor performance...
Chuck Peretto
07.11.2013		I am need of a new Macbook myself ( my old one is about 7 years old). I am interested in one of these Haswell rMBP but have a few concerns and questions for you, the DJTT community.

Maybe not a big difference in either choice, but 8 GB or 16 GB regarding RAM, and 2 or 2.3 ghz when it comes to the CPU? I feel 8 would be enough, but am a bit concerned about future proofing and what RAM apps may require in the future (4-5 years out). I'd like to hold onto my next laptop for at least another 5 years. As far as cpu is related, I'm believeing 2.0 i7 quad core would be enough, but wasn't certain. Would I get a lower latency setting from a bit bigger processor or more RAM?

Has anyone picked up a new rMBP yet that could tell me if they are having good results without a dGPU? I wouldn't mind having the 750m one in mine, but wasn't looking to spend quite that much just to get one. I'm not a big gamer, nor do I work with 3D imaging. I do want to keep running Traktor 2.6 and beyond though.

And finally, good results with Mavericks OS so far (except for some external controller compatibility, and the power key that can put the computer to sleep when you didn't mean to)? I read about those on the Mavericks thread. Thanks for your help. Feel free to share your cpu and RAM configurations if you are currently using Mavericks and Traktor with no problems.
Alphonso Deitchman
04.11.2013		Yes, that's to be expected since they carry large numbers of the stock models.
Forrest Weeks
04.11.2013		If you customize the base 15" rMBP to match the CPU, RAM and SSD of the higher end one, the price difference becomes $0, but with no dGPU. http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/ma.../A&step=config, it is the same 2599 bucks as the 15 rMBP (2.3/512/16) w/ the discrete graphics.

Also 1 of my friends bought it from apple store in Denver and he confirmed that price for both are the same.
Alphonso Deitchman
04.11.2013		Where are you seeing ones with and without discrete graphics at the same price? I don't see any in the online store.

Edit: figured it out. If you choose all the upgrade options to match, the prices match too since BTO costs more than stock configs.
Forrest Weeks
04.11.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
The 15" model without discrete graphics is much cheaper.
It is not, the rMBPs with or without having discrete graphics are priced the same. They have some stock configs where they bump up the ssd to 512 Gb/ram to 16 Gb and throw in the discrete graphics too, thats why it looks expensive.

Apart from few keyboard freezes (reported by users in apple's support community ) I haven't found anything so hope it should be fine
Alphonso Deitchman
27.10.2013		The 15" model without discrete graphics is much cheaper.

If you push your latency lower than your system can handle you'll get glitches and crackles on a Mac too. But random spikes don't tend to happen and there's no extensive system optimisation necessary beyond the obvious things like WiFi/Bluetooth and hard drive sleep.

The main issue that could still occur is problematic drivers for new hardware configurations, and it can sometimes take a while for stable drivers to be released.
Forrest Weeks
27.10.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Almost all of the new Macbooks have no discrete graphics, so turning internal graphics off just isn't an option.

The 512/16 15" model comes with NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M. (http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/macbook-pro), apparently you can get one without the graphics at the same price. Since discrete graphics normally create problems like overheating I was intending to get one without it (like the 2011 MBPs faced severe overheating issues).


The link you provided is from a Windows user too so it doesn't exactly apply. "Latency spikes" have never really been an issue for Macs.
Oh, pardon my ignorance, so that means MBP users never face any dropouts/audio glitches/crackles due to latency issues? That would be really good news then.
Alphonso Deitchman
27.10.2013		Almost all of the new Macbooks have no discrete graphics, so turning internal graphics off just isn't an option.

The link you provided is from a Windows user too so it doesn't exactly apply. "Latency spikes" have never really been an issue for Macs.
Forrest Weeks
26.10.2013
Originally Posted by DJSigma
but Haswell isn't the first line of CPUs to switch between power states
Agreed, but that seems to be one of the main focus here (to save power), though I believe the internal graphics chip might cause more problem than the switching, I hope we can turn it off?

This guy here seemed to be experiencing crackles which were gone when he shifted to discrete graphics. I believe if Intel would have made the graphics on board (on motherboard) instead of on chip (on the processor) it would have been better?
Originally Posted by DJSigma
DPC is a term that applies to a feature of the Windows operating system, not OS X.
Okay then latency spikes maybe?
Lina Rawie
26.10.2013		Your question is valid regardless, but Haswell isn't the first line of CPUs to switch between power states and DPC is a term that applies to a feature of the Windows operating system, not OS X.
Delena Katherman
26.10.2013		Curious about this as well.

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