Deckadance 2 pioneer compatilibility?

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Deckadance 2 pioneer compatilibility?
Posted on: 11.04.2013 by Kathe Stump
Do we have a resident deckadance 2 expert yet?

1. Do we know if deckadance will be capable of using the DJM 2000 soundcard natively, like traktor does?

2. What about the CDJ-2000/900's midi/HID control? Will deckadance support that?

I'm not sure class-compliant this technology is. I know that these will work with ableton and serato, but I've been under the impression that there were special patches released for this. IS deckadance shipping with this capability?
Diogo Dj Dragão
11.04.2013
Originally Posted by octostout
What's the resolution on the midi? if it's standard midi, then the jogwheel and pitch fader are not very useful...
the PL-1 is high res midi, so you can use the jogwheels and pitch fader.
This is an incorrect understanding of how MIDI works. "Standard" MIDI is either 7bit or 14bit, but that's only a fraction of the story. When you talk about resolution as it pertains to MIDI, you're generally referring to CC messages (it can apply to the velocity/aftertouch of note messages as well, but let's keep things simple). There are a couple kinds of CC messages - absolute and relative. An absolute message is typically used on pots (linear and rotary), because pots have a finite range of travel - so believe faders or "EQ style" knobs. A 7bit absolute CC message has 128 steps, which is relatively low resolution. But there are plenty of instances where it's totally appropriate to use it - like a 60mm channel fader (which would give you just over 2 counts per millimeter of travel). A 14bit absolute CC message has 16384 counts of resolution. The most common example of a standard 14bit control is the pitch wheel on a keyboard. But there are always hardware limitations that keep all 16K messages from being expressed, so you'll typically wind up with what is essentially a 9 or 10bit message. For even a 100mm fader (like the pitch fader on a 1200), a 14bit message is complete overkill (with 163 counts of resolution per millimeter of travel, or a .006 pitch resolution).

The other kind of CC message is a relative message. Relative messages are usually used on controls with an infinite length of travel (like a jog platter or an endless encoder). Instead of counting a series of numbers across a finite range, a relative message just sends a "tick" when turned. Because of that, even a 7bit relative message can have thousands of counts (or ticks) of resolution per rotation. It's all up to the resolution of the control.

Another factor that needs to be considered when talking about message resolution is your target platform. What software are you developing towards, and how does that software handle MIDI? Some apps handle MIDI like a champ and execute on MIDI queues as fast as you can fill them. Other apps can choke on lots of messages and overall performance will suffer. I've seen some apps just crash to desktop when encountering a lot of MIDI traffic. For this reason, more messaging is NOT always better. I've seen high resolution jog wheels (3000+ counts per rotation) perform like shit, while lower resolution platters (500-800 counts) feel amazing. Tuning the feel of the platter is a lot more important for most users than actual resolution. The closer the platter gets to a 1:1 relationship with the "virtual platter", the more accurate the platter feels.

Hope this info helps.
Kathe Stump
11.04.2013		Do we have a resident deckadance 2 expert yet?

1. Do we know if deckadance will be capable of using the DJM 2000 soundcard natively, like traktor does?

2. What about the CDJ-2000/900's midi/HID control? Will deckadance support that?

I'm not sure class-compliant this technology is. I know that these will work with ableton and serato, but I've been under the impression that there were special patches released for this. IS deckadance shipping with this capability?
Emelina Chillson
11.04.2013		That was an awesome informative post and read. thank you Nemon1c.
Diogo Dj Dragão
11.04.2013
Originally Posted by octostout
What's the resolution on the midi? if it's standard midi, then the jogwheel and pitch fader are not very useful...
the PL-1 is high res midi, so you can use the jogwheels and pitch fader.
This is an incorrect understanding of how MIDI works. "Standard" MIDI is either 7bit or 14bit, but that's only a fraction of the story. When you talk about resolution as it pertains to MIDI, you're generally referring to CC messages (it can apply to the velocity/aftertouch of note messages as well, but let's keep things simple). There are a couple kinds of CC messages - absolute and relative. An absolute message is typically used on pots (linear and rotary), because pots have a finite range of travel - so believe faders or "EQ style" knobs. A 7bit absolute CC message has 128 steps, which is relatively low resolution. But there are plenty of instances where it's totally appropriate to use it - like a 60mm channel fader (which would give you just over 2 counts per millimeter of travel). A 14bit absolute CC message has 16384 counts of resolution. The most common example of a standard 14bit control is the pitch wheel on a keyboard. But there are always hardware limitations that keep all 16K messages from being expressed, so you'll typically wind up with what is essentially a 9 or 10bit message. For even a 100mm fader (like the pitch fader on a 1200), a 14bit message is complete overkill (with 163 counts of resolution per millimeter of travel, or a .006 pitch resolution).

The other kind of CC message is a relative message. Relative messages are usually used on controls with an infinite length of travel (like a jog platter or an endless encoder). Instead of counting a series of numbers across a finite range, a relative message just sends a "tick" when turned. Because of that, even a 7bit relative message can have thousands of counts (or ticks) of resolution per rotation. It's all up to the resolution of the control.

Another factor that needs to be considered when talking about message resolution is your target platform. What software are you developing towards, and how does that software handle MIDI? Some apps handle MIDI like a champ and execute on MIDI queues as fast as you can fill them. Other apps can choke on lots of messages and overall performance will suffer. I've seen some apps just crash to desktop when encountering a lot of MIDI traffic. For this reason, more messaging is NOT always better. I've seen high resolution jog wheels (3000+ counts per rotation) perform like shit, while lower resolution platters (500-800 counts) feel amazing. Tuning the feel of the platter is a lot more important for most users than actual resolution. The closer the platter gets to a 1:1 relationship with the "virtual platter", the more accurate the platter feels.

Hope this info helps.
Kathe Stump
11.04.2013		the PL-1 is high res midi, so you can use the jogwheels and pitch fader.
Alphonso Deitchman
11.04.2013		Aren't all other Deckadance controllers e.g. the CMD series standard MIDI?
Kathe Stump
11.04.2013		What's the resolution on the midi? if it's standard midi, then the jogwheel and pitch fader are not very useful...
Alphonso Deitchman
11.04.2013		The 2000s work as generic MIDI controllers in addition to HID, so they can still be used as controllers+sound cards for any DJ application. Except Serato that requires an SL box for audio..
Kathe Stump
11.04.2013		I was under the impression that you don't need drivers for the 2000's but they send special information through HID. I do know that serato required a special update to support the 2000's.

Would it be possible to run a deckadance just like a traktor set up? Where you show up at a gig and just plug in your three usb's to the CDJS and mixer and go?
Brunilda Kora
11.04.2013		Good Q. I wonder if DD2 is compatible with DJM-850???

I can't see that it won't be...
Alphonso Deitchman
11.04.2013		I'm not aware of any restrictions on sound cards on any device that only allow Traktor to use them.

CDJs are class compliant though. No drivers needed at all for Mac users.

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