House can't supply enough power

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House can't supply enough power
Posted on: 16.08.2013 by Riva Ishiyama
So I was djing at my friends house last evening and his house was unable to supply enough power. We we're using his cdj 850s with a djm 900. I'm not sure the watts on the sub or the speaker. On the upper floor the Christmas lights he had hanging were going out as well. Do you guys believe it's just a troublesome outlet and we should distribute the load between different outlets or there is something wrong with the houses electrical as a whole? I'm going over there later to test the outlets with a multimeter but has anyone ever had this problem? Any and all solutions are appreciated.
Qiana Castellucci
20.08.2013
Originally Posted by antifmradio
you have no idea how many times i wish EVERYONE would do the same lol

infact what i have been doing with my home is
appliances ARE separated from lights with the exception of a ceiling fan. i count that as a LIGHT
I have to admit I'm a bit stunned that US codes don't specify this. The load. power, breaker and RCD types are different for all of these services so, to me at least, its completely logical to separate them out.

Aside from any safety concerns, it gives you the best flexibility as far as setting up your house with feeds that are not going to blow...
Libbie Orion
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by iambiggles
I'm in the UK so our codes/rules may well be different, but I'm pretty sure its unwise to run lighting on the same circuit as power sockets. I've remodeled multiple houses and (over here, so, as I say maybe different rules) we have separate feeds for lighting, power sockets, then others for high draw feeds like kitchen appliances. I've always specified multiple separate 30amp feeds for my studio and again for the garage where I need high draw feeds for tig and mig welders.

Each circuit group (lighting, wall outlets, specific outlets) then has its own matched RCD.

Belts and Braces
you have no idea how many times i wish EVERYONE would do the same lol

infact what i have been doing with my home is
appliances ARE separated from lights with the exception of a ceiling fan. i count that as a LIGHT
Libbie Orion
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by manchild
Just a word of caution.....this is a very involved task that depending on the size of the job could take awhile (meaning the possibility of being without power in the meantime). It's one of those things that looks easier then it actually is. No matter how skilled a craftsmen, its a job that I do not recommend any amateur doing. Obviously dangerous too.... In any case best of luck.....
thanks very much manchild
actually i have someone helping me with it in this case, as he is well more skilled then i am.
I have reserved the entire day for it, and since its august in New Jersey, ill have daylight for this from 7am to 8pm

if i run out, we have a generator =-)
All set and ready to go
Doreen Schurle
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
There isn't actually any such thing as "RMS power". Continuous figures are the ones you should be looking at.
The manual is a bit contradictory; it states 2500W continuous at 4 ohms, but later specifies 750W per channel at a specific RMS load (which is the calculated power based on a constant sine wave input avoiding clipping).
Alphonso Deitchman
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Your amplifiers won't put out anywhere near 2500W. Inflated numbers like that are peak, not RMS; unless they're the size of a car (an actual car, not a car amplifier), then they're probably more like 500W RMS, which will draw about 4 amps at max load.
How do you know if they're peak figures or continuous? The higher end amplifiers from reputable companies will have no problem putting out a few thousand watts continuously, while retaining the 19 inch rack form factor.
Doreen Schurle
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by DJ MAX
You maybe right but if i crank them, power outlets cant handle.. i swear i have problems many many times.... in one party the whole house got black out...
I stand corrected actually, just did some research on the FR-2500s (I assume that's what you're running), and they're 1500W RMS @ 4 ohms, with a recommended supply amperage of 10A (guessing that's based on 230V mains - equates to 6.5A with a +3.5A peak buffer).

In all seriousness, you might be better off looking at running them directly off a spare 30A circuit directly from the breaker. I'm pretty sure you can get RCDs with those industrial power connectors on them which plug directly into the most common fuseboards for that very purpose.
Kathyrn Paczynski
19.08.2013		You maybe right but if i crank them, power outlets cant handle.. i swear i have problems many many times.... in one party the whole house got black out...

Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Your amplifiers won't put out anywhere near 2500W. Inflated numbers like that are peak, not RMS; unless they're the size of a car (an actual car, not a car amplifier), then they're probably more like 500W RMS, which will draw about 4 amps at max load.
Doreen Schurle
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by DJ MAX
and i got 3 amps @ 2500 w each....
also the lights take a lot of power..
Your amplifiers won't put out anywhere near 2500W. Inflated numbers like that are peak, not RMS; unless they're the size of a car (an actual car, not a car amplifier), then they're probably more like 500W RMS, which will draw about 4 amps at max load.
Qiana Castellucci
20.08.2013
Originally Posted by antifmradio
you have no idea how many times i wish EVERYONE would do the same lol

infact what i have been doing with my home is
appliances ARE separated from lights with the exception of a ceiling fan. i count that as a LIGHT
I have to admit I'm a bit stunned that US codes don't specify this. The load. power, breaker and RCD types are different for all of these services so, to me at least, its completely logical to separate them out.

Aside from any safety concerns, it gives you the best flexibility as far as setting up your house with feeds that are not going to blow...
Libbie Orion
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by iambiggles
I'm in the UK so our codes/rules may well be different, but I'm pretty sure its unwise to run lighting on the same circuit as power sockets. I've remodeled multiple houses and (over here, so, as I say maybe different rules) we have separate feeds for lighting, power sockets, then others for high draw feeds like kitchen appliances. I've always specified multiple separate 30amp feeds for my studio and again for the garage where I need high draw feeds for tig and mig welders.

Each circuit group (lighting, wall outlets, specific outlets) then has its own matched RCD.

Belts and Braces
you have no idea how many times i wish EVERYONE would do the same lol

infact what i have been doing with my home is
appliances ARE separated from lights with the exception of a ceiling fan. i count that as a LIGHT
Libbie Orion
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by manchild
Just a word of caution.....this is a very involved task that depending on the size of the job could take awhile (meaning the possibility of being without power in the meantime). It's one of those things that looks easier then it actually is. No matter how skilled a craftsmen, its a job that I do not recommend any amateur doing. Obviously dangerous too.... In any case best of luck.....
thanks very much manchild
actually i have someone helping me with it in this case, as he is well more skilled then i am.
I have reserved the entire day for it, and since its august in New Jersey, ill have daylight for this from 7am to 8pm

if i run out, we have a generator =-)
All set and ready to go
Kathyrn Paczynski
19.08.2013		Well i still believe that split the power between lights and amps and (if you can computer - controller) by using more power cords from different outlets is the best way to manage power problems... for mobile dj's.. that's my little advice...
Alphonso Deitchman
19.08.2013		2500W is the bridged figure, so impedance is effectively halved and power output will of course go up.

750W per channel is still well above your 500W total estimate, and will require a current of 12 amps which is approaching the limit of some circuits in the US. And that's for just 1 amplifier.
Doreen Schurle
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
There isn't actually any such thing as "RMS power". Continuous figures are the ones you should be looking at.
The manual is a bit contradictory; it states 2500W continuous at 4 ohms, but later specifies 750W per channel at a specific RMS load (which is the calculated power based on a constant sine wave input avoiding clipping).
Alphonso Deitchman
19.08.2013		There isn't actually any such thing as "RMS power". Continuous figures are the ones you should be looking at.
Kathyrn Paczynski
19.08.2013		wait..... 500w rms?...... the manual say 2500w continuous... not sure the difference...
Alphonso Deitchman
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Your amplifiers won't put out anywhere near 2500W. Inflated numbers like that are peak, not RMS; unless they're the size of a car (an actual car, not a car amplifier), then they're probably more like 500W RMS, which will draw about 4 amps at max load.
How do you know if they're peak figures or continuous? The higher end amplifiers from reputable companies will have no problem putting out a few thousand watts continuously, while retaining the 19 inch rack form factor.
Doreen Schurle
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by DJ MAX
You maybe right but if i crank them, power outlets cant handle.. i swear i have problems many many times.... in one party the whole house got black out...
I stand corrected actually, just did some research on the FR-2500s (I assume that's what you're running), and they're 1500W RMS @ 4 ohms, with a recommended supply amperage of 10A (guessing that's based on 230V mains - equates to 6.5A with a +3.5A peak buffer).

In all seriousness, you might be better off looking at running them directly off a spare 30A circuit directly from the breaker. I'm pretty sure you can get RCDs with those industrial power connectors on them which plug directly into the most common fuseboards for that very purpose.
Kathyrn Paczynski
19.08.2013		You maybe right but if i crank them, power outlets cant handle.. i swear i have problems many many times.... in one party the whole house got black out...

Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Your amplifiers won't put out anywhere near 2500W. Inflated numbers like that are peak, not RMS; unless they're the size of a car (an actual car, not a car amplifier), then they're probably more like 500W RMS, which will draw about 4 amps at max load.
Doreen Schurle
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by DJ MAX
and i got 3 amps @ 2500 w each....
also the lights take a lot of power..
Your amplifiers won't put out anywhere near 2500W. Inflated numbers like that are peak, not RMS; unless they're the size of a car (an actual car, not a car amplifier), then they're probably more like 500W RMS, which will draw about 4 amps at max load.
Kathyrn Paczynski
19.08.2013		and i got 3 amps @ 2500 w each....
also the lights take a lot of power..
Originally Posted by DJ MAX
I always split with two extension cords from different outlets as far away as possible one for lights and anotherone for amps so if lights go dark music continue....
Kathyrn Paczynski
19.08.2013		I always split with two extension cords from different outlets as far away as possible one for lights and anotherone for amps so if lights go dark music continue....
Addie Engbrecht
19.08.2013		Over here there's no code against having general purpose outlets and lighting connected to the same circuit in a home, and its common practice. Depending on the room and or the gear being supplied, there are different types of circuits required....code will define what they can or can not feed and or the size of the circuit and or special protection (ground fault, arc fault,etc). Weird talkin electrical on a dj community
Qiana Castellucci
19.08.2013
Originally Posted by antifmradio
not exactly

goes up to the (2 gang) say it starts on the left side, and then its jumped to the right side.
From there the line can either continue to somewhere else (light switch or other outlet) no matter what you are doing
I'm in the UK so our codes/rules may well be different, but I'm pretty sure its unwise to run lighting on the same circuit as power sockets. I've remodeled multiple houses and (over here, so, as I say maybe different rules) we have separate feeds for lighting, power sockets, then others for high draw feeds like kitchen appliances. I've always specified multiple separate 30amp feeds for my studio and again for the garage where I need high draw feeds for tig and mig welders.

Each circuit group (lighting, wall outlets, specific outlets) then has its own matched RCD.

Belts and Braces
Addie Engbrecht
18.08.2013
Originally Posted by antifmradio


Next step is to pull out my old breaker panel (100amp service)
and replace it with a 200 amp service
Just a word of caution.....this is a very involved task that depending on the size of the job could take awhile (meaning the possibility of being without power in the meantime). It's one of those things that looks easier then it actually is. No matter how skilled a craftsmen, its a job that I do not recommend any amateur doing. Obviously dangerous too.... In any case best of luck.....
Libbie Orion
18.08.2013
Originally Posted by makar1
Double sockets are in parallel so current is shared.
not exactly
what youre calling a "double socket" is a " 2 gang outlet "
Most of the time, the line comes in from the breaker panel where its connected to a SINGLE breaker,
goes up to the (2 gang) say it starts on the left side, and then its jumped to the right side.
From there the line can either continue to somewhere else (light switch or other outlet) no matter what you are doing
you always started in a BREAKER that was 15amps.
Just because you have a 15amp breaker connected to a 2 gang box outlet, doesnt MAKE it turn into 20 or 30 amps. IT will always be a 15 amp supply.

The only way you can get higher then that is
A) Start with a 20, 25, 30... amp breaker
B) Start both outlets at INDIVIDUAL breakers rated higher then 15amps.

So yes the current is shared, which means if these guys plugged in their bass bins and mixing gear into all 4 outlets, they'd trip the breaker pretty quickly.

bottom line is, theyll need to make sure they are pulling power from different 120v supplies.


And yes...... i have studied quite a bit about electricity
Infact, i spent the last two summers, rewiring my new home to bring things up to code


Next step is to pull out my old breaker panel (100amp service)
and replace it with a 200 amp service
Lanie Priske
16.08.2013		Me reading the replies in this thread wat.jpg
Ninfa Mazariegos
16.08.2013		A lot of home theater guys like to have electricians rewire their living rooms for powerful amps. From the way they talk about it, it's not terribly expensive. Plus it wouldn't be a had idea to have an electrician check it out anyways.
Addie Engbrecht
16.08.2013		Chances are that an outlet in a house in the US is going to be on a 15a circuit, but there are def some 20a circuits connected to outlets within the home. What exactly was happening???? Was it tripping the breaker, or was everything just dimming, or would stuff randomly go off and turn back on by itself????
Alphonso Deitchman
16.08.2013		Double sockets are in parallel so current is shared.
Neville Blackinton
16.08.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
Yeah but that's 15 PER socket, so 30 amps from a double surely?
Nope. It's 15 amps per circuit not per socket.

The US uses 110/115V where the UK uses 220/230V.
Doreen Schurle
16.08.2013
Originally Posted by Paka Ono
Standard sockets here in the US only provide 15 amps.
Yeah but that's 15 PER socket, so 30 amps from a double surely?
Neville Blackinton
16.08.2013
Originally Posted by mdcdesign
I dunno how things are in America, but usually a mains circuit in the UK is a maximum of 30 amps distributed between (sometimes) the entire house, or at the very least one floor of the house. Theoretically it's possible to pull 26 amps of that 30 out of a single double socket; however, flickering lights isn't usually an issue with overloading either a socket or the ring circuit because that'd cause a fuse or circuit breaker to blow.

Sounds more like narrow gauge wire has been used to wire up the sockets, either back to the fusebox - which can be solved by spreading the load between different sockets - or even worse, on a ring main setup which means you'll have to run something off a completely different circuit.
Standard sockets here in the US only provide 15 amps.
Doreen Schurle
16.08.2013
Originally Posted by SirReal
Your friend should probably move if he wants to be a DJ.
Either that or invest in a shitload of car batteries.
Antonetta Wikel
16.08.2013		Your friend should probably move if he wants to be a DJ.
Doreen Schurle
16.08.2013		I dunno how things are in America, but usually a mains circuit in the UK is a maximum of 30 amps distributed between (sometimes) the entire house, or at the very least one floor of the house. Theoretically it's possible to pull 26 amps of that 30 out of a single double socket; however, flickering lights isn't usually an issue with overloading either a socket or the ring circuit because that'd cause a fuse or circuit breaker to blow.

Sounds more like narrow gauge wire has been used to wire up the sockets, either back to the fusebox - which can be solved by spreading the load between different sockets - or even worse, on a ring main setup which means you'll have to run something off a completely different circuit.
Valene Guasp
16.08.2013		Please don't stick multimeters in to sockets unless you know what you are doing and are competent in doing it!
Riva Ishiyama
16.08.2013		Never though of that. Thank you so much, i'll tell you how it works out!
Erica Charvet
16.08.2013		You're just overdrawing the amperage. Keep in mind that single circuit can run a dozen outlets... possibly more.

Have someone stand by the circuit breakers and turn them on and off while you identify which outlets correspond to which breakers. Then run an extension cord from the second circuit, distribute the loads as evenly as possible, and you're all set.

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