How far can you take Traktor w/o an API?

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How far can you take Traktor w/o an API?
Posted on: 30.05.2010 by Nestor Witkowsky
Okay, so NI offers no API for Traktor due to issues w/ stability. Fair enough. But, there are some things I do not like, mainly w/ the inability to add my own tags to my collection. As w/ all things computer related, there's ways around limitations. If anyone has any experience with this, I'd love to hear it.

I guess the easiest way to "manipulate" Traktor from an external program would be to map keys and then have your program simulate these key-presses. The caveat would be grabbing focus of Traktor I assume.

Another feature that I thought could be useful would be to add & delete tracks from a playlist. These seems relatively easy assuming you can find where the playlist is stored. Whether it will refresh or not seems to be key.

If you have something interesting to add, feel free!
Leota Saniuk
02.06.2010
Originally Posted by sj03w4t
I believe M4L fades this line.

Yeah, traktor has many features to wish, but let's look at the bright side: they have soo many features already incorporated and let's be honest: they enable you to do a lot with regards to (midi) mapping, beat gridding etc.
To be honest with you, I'm not sure what you mean by 'adding tags' to collection and 'add and remove tracks from a playlist'. Why would you do this using another program anyway? Sorry if the answer is too obvious, I don't want to sound insulting/denigrating
Here is how I tag my songs:
http://ifnotwhynot.me/getting-myself-organized

Basically I add names of tags into the grouping field. Now the problem is that when I am DJing, I am not loading the tracks into iTunes, heck I do not have iTunes loaded. But what if I want to add new tags? Sure I can do in and edit the grouping field in Traktor. But if I am DJing, I will be doing typos because it doesnt have my focus. I want to just click from a list of existing tags or get autocompletion etc.

Anyway, having an API here could also enable stuff like DJing together with someone else, you could just bounce new tracks into their library and stuff like that.

Again there is no reason why they couldn't provide an API for the track browsing/editing/loading yet still maintain stability. Ok there are other stuff they can spend their time on and NI does come up with new stuff. But at the same time they also kill all efforts to creating better UI's for MIDI mapping (hello tiny screen, hello merging MIDI layouts) by changing their MIDI format to be binary encoded.
Jayne Yellowhair
31.05.2010
Originally Posted by pepehouse
... we are djs not programers, technology is good but lends people to become sooo lazy.
I believe M4L fades this line.

Yeah, traktor has many features to wish, but let's look at the bright side: they have soo many features already incorporated and let's be honest: they enable you to do a lot with regards to (midi) mapping, beat gridding etc.
To be honest with you, I'm not sure what you mean by 'adding tags' to collection and 'add and remove tracks from a playlist'. Why would you do this using another program anyway? Sorry if the answer is too obvious, I don't want to sound insulting/denigrating
Xavier Emanuels
31.05.2010
Originally Posted by kiss-o-matic
Moving to Ableton would kind of defeat the purpose. Well, totally for that matter. Isn't Ableton all about having your tunes all beat-matched pre-gig?
M4L allows you to do whatever the hell you like as long as u got the skillz to make it a reality - your imagination is the only thing holding you back with m4l
Xavier Emanuels
30.05.2010
Originally Posted by kiss-o-matic
Yeah, that's quite similar. I'm mainly looking more for a tool that doesn't do all that "for you" but is kind of an extension of the users brain & experience. Think of it as an advanced notes taker... then you can't blame anyone but yourself if something goes wrong.
You should use Max Msp or Ableton \ M4l if you want this kind of functionality
Nestor Witkowsky
30.05.2010
Originally Posted by pepehouse
What the hell you are talking about? You can do all that already with Traktor have you even tried the program?
Open your mind a little. That's a micro piece of the puzzle b/c I don't want to go into the macro. This hypothetical playlist will be populated & depopulated automatically based on what track is playing (which would be based on tags and shit the user sets at some other time, *EXTERNAL to Traktor*).

Thanks for your valuable input.
Nestor Witkowsky
30.05.2010		Okay, so NI offers no API for Traktor due to issues w/ stability. Fair enough. But, there are some things I do not like, mainly w/ the inability to add my own tags to my collection. As w/ all things computer related, there's ways around limitations. If anyone has any experience with this, I'd love to hear it.

I guess the easiest way to "manipulate" Traktor from an external program would be to map keys and then have your program simulate these key-presses. The caveat would be grabbing focus of Traktor I assume.

Another feature that I thought could be useful would be to add & delete tracks from a playlist. These seems relatively easy assuming you can find where the playlist is stored. Whether it will refresh or not seems to be key.

If you have something interesting to add, feel free!
Jama Angie
05.09.2013		all i want to do is read the names of the tracks i have in the browser and which one is currently selected so i can send the info to a touchOSC patch. simple really or at least i would have thought.
Leota Saniuk
02.06.2010
Originally Posted by sj03w4t
I believe M4L fades this line.

Yeah, traktor has many features to wish, but let's look at the bright side: they have soo many features already incorporated and let's be honest: they enable you to do a lot with regards to (midi) mapping, beat gridding etc.
To be honest with you, I'm not sure what you mean by 'adding tags' to collection and 'add and remove tracks from a playlist'. Why would you do this using another program anyway? Sorry if the answer is too obvious, I don't want to sound insulting/denigrating
Here is how I tag my songs:
http://ifnotwhynot.me/getting-myself-organized

Basically I add names of tags into the grouping field. Now the problem is that when I am DJing, I am not loading the tracks into iTunes, heck I do not have iTunes loaded. But what if I want to add new tags? Sure I can do in and edit the grouping field in Traktor. But if I am DJing, I will be doing typos because it doesnt have my focus. I want to just click from a list of existing tags or get autocompletion etc.

Anyway, having an API here could also enable stuff like DJing together with someone else, you could just bounce new tracks into their library and stuff like that.

Again there is no reason why they couldn't provide an API for the track browsing/editing/loading yet still maintain stability. Ok there are other stuff they can spend their time on and NI does come up with new stuff. But at the same time they also kill all efforts to creating better UI's for MIDI mapping (hello tiny screen, hello merging MIDI layouts) by changing their MIDI format to be binary encoded.
Nestor Witkowsky
01.06.2010
Originally Posted by pepehouse
get only the tunes you are really going to play and don't download all the shit off torrents sites only cause it's free,
Cool. Way to bring up completely irrelevant shit. I buy all my music.

you'll always remember which tracks go well together without having to write a full chapter about it
This is not true in the least. I had the same issue w/ vinyl. I agree there's no substitute for knowing your tracks, but there's a breaking point where memory is not going to remember sometimes crucial details. I'm talking of no more than a fancy way to organizing your tunes. Was I wrong in organizing my vinyl in some type of order back in the day? Going off your logic alone works, but at some point you ignore your old tracks and only show love to the new.

we are djs not programers
I am both.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'adding tags' to collection
Techno is a melting pot, and I find simply labeling something as "tech house", "techno", or "minimal" is crap and horribly ineffective. Why can't I have 10 flags of my own creation? funky, housey, hard, soft, deep, electro, minimal, etc. Setting the genre will not work as plenty of tracks, if not all overlap many of these sub genres.

and 'add and remove tracks from a playlist'. Why would you do this using another program anyway?
adding & removing from a Playlist is the only way I can see it being done in Traktor now. Why would I use another program? B/c Traktor won't let you do it. I'm all for highlighting appropriate tracks in Traktor... that'd be ideal, but not realistic.
Jayne Yellowhair
31.05.2010
Originally Posted by pepehouse
... we are djs not programers, technology is good but lends people to become sooo lazy.
I believe M4L fades this line.

Yeah, traktor has many features to wish, but let's look at the bright side: they have soo many features already incorporated and let's be honest: they enable you to do a lot with regards to (midi) mapping, beat gridding etc.
To be honest with you, I'm not sure what you mean by 'adding tags' to collection and 'add and remove tracks from a playlist'. Why would you do this using another program anyway? Sorry if the answer is too obvious, I don't want to sound insulting/denigrating
Xavier Emanuels
31.05.2010
Originally Posted by kiss-o-matic
Moving to Ableton would kind of defeat the purpose. Well, totally for that matter. Isn't Ableton all about having your tunes all beat-matched pre-gig?
M4L allows you to do whatever the hell you like as long as u got the skillz to make it a reality - your imagination is the only thing holding you back with m4l
Brandon Krugger
31.05.2010		Instead of dreaming about fancy features to do what it has always been the DJ job, espend your time playing your tracks and knowing them, get only the tunes you are really going to play and don't download all the shit off torrents sites only cause it's free, that way you won't need a program to automatically tag your billion files cause it's humanly impossible to do and you'll always remember which tracks go well together without having to write a full chapter about it in the tags, we are djs not programers, technology is good but lends people to become sooo lazy.
Nestor Witkowsky
31.05.2010
the stability argument has a bit of merit, but its just pushed by NI because they hate their customers ideas
I agree. I'd blow someone at NI if they'd display the beat offset in hundredths of a second instead of just tenths. I know I can use the BPM counter, but I don't like to rely on it. W/ the VCI-100, it's too easy to have no clue whether or not you actually moved the fader or not. It's a freakin' line of code... seriously, WTF?

furthermore there are plenty of vst's out there and they do not seem to crash ableton. then again for the anti vst stance they say that all of their filters work "in-time" which wouldnt be possible with 3rd party vst's.
I'll probably give Mixxx a look. It's open source so you can go crazy with it. Obviously not nearly as feature rich. But yeah, whadda ya gonna do. Maybe Traktor will get a serious competitor sometime that offers an API.
Leota Saniuk
31.05.2010		the stability argument has a bit of merit, but its just pushed by NI because they hate their customers ideas. customers in the world of NI are allowed to use NI products to do what NI believes makes sense. creativity is allowed within the bounds they define.

obviously adding an API to interact with the track browser, the meta tags, heck even track loading would allow for all sorts of useful stuff (not just for custom tagging, but also using a separate screen for the track browsing, etc), has no impact on stability.

furthermore there are plenty of vst's out there and they do not seem to crash ableton. then again for the anti vst stance they say that all of their filters work "in-time" which wouldnt be possible with 3rd party vst's.

oh well.
Nestor Witkowsky
31.05.2010		Moving to Ableton would kind of defeat the purpose. Well, totally for that matter. Isn't Ableton all about having your tunes all beat-matched pre-gig?
Xavier Emanuels
30.05.2010
Originally Posted by kiss-o-matic
Yeah, that's quite similar. I'm mainly looking more for a tool that doesn't do all that "for you" but is kind of an extension of the users brain & experience. Think of it as an advanced notes taker... then you can't blame anyone but yourself if something goes wrong.
You should use Max Msp or Ableton \ M4l if you want this kind of functionality
Nestor Witkowsky
30.05.2010		Yeah, that's quite similar. I'm mainly looking more for a tool that doesn't do all that "for you" but is kind of an extension of the users brain & experience. Think of it as an advanced notes taker... then you can't blame anyone but yourself if something goes wrong.
Herschel January
30.05.2010		have you tried Rapid Evolution available at www.mixshare.com? it can do similar to what you're talking about, but it isn't inside of traktor.
Nestor Witkowsky
30.05.2010		Ah, yes. That's the basic premise... at least at first. My main gripe with Traktor is that I can't add my own tags. This is something easy to program, but it's just not there. So, I'm just going to do something that reads in the collection file, and also adds some tags to it. Easy peasy.

However, the other slightly more advanced feature would be, since I do long mixes, I don't really have time to "test out" the next track. There are some tracks that just do not go together no matter how hard you try. Some, do. There would be some type of tagging feature where you can rank how well an intro & extro go together. (Right now I have to rely on the 2 comment fields in Traktor) In the app, you can easily highlight the good and ghost out the bad, which may work for people that don't mind another application running. But I was believeing of taking it a step further and somehow getting these tracks to reflect in Traktor. You can easily edit playlists in collection.nml, but I don't know how Traktor's going to like something else editing that thing while it's running. I also don't know if it would refresh or not. So, at this point, I'm just believeing out loud and seeing what can be done. Of course, dicking around w/ it and finding out is part of the fun, too!
Roselle Mcnaul
30.05.2010		Hmmm...I *believe* I know what you're hinting at, but I could be wrong. Have you checked this out?:

http://software.xfx.net/utilities/ape/index.htm
Nestor Witkowsky
30.05.2010
Originally Posted by pepehouse
What the hell you are talking about? You can do all that already with Traktor have you even tried the program?
Open your mind a little. That's a micro piece of the puzzle b/c I don't want to go into the macro. This hypothetical playlist will be populated & depopulated automatically based on what track is playing (which would be based on tags and shit the user sets at some other time, *EXTERNAL to Traktor*).

Thanks for your valuable input.
Brandon Krugger
30.05.2010		What the hell you are talking about? You can do all that already with Traktor have you even tried the program?

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