Calvin Harris
and Dillon Francis
worked there... no way!
| New to mixing drum 'n bass...problems! Help! Recently I have been interested in starting to get into mixing drum 'n bass. I come from a progressive house/trance/electro house background and feel quite comfortable with those genres...but drum 'n bass is giving me heck.
The main problem for me is simple EQ transitions. Unlike progressive, the volume isn't necessarily primarily in the lows...it seems to be more in the highs and mids. However, I'm learning that the lows are still necessary to cut for when a new track comes in. The thing is though, if I cut the highs AND the lows of a new track...I can barely hear it coming in. I don't know where the real punch of the track is so when I try to do a low transition where I fully bring in the low and cut the one of the old track...I hardly notice it. If I slightly reduce the lows and highs it's just too loud and goes into the red.
Simply put I need some help on learning how to do basic transitions for DnB.
Another thing, I find that if I am playing one DnB track at standard EQ along with another in which the lows are cut...it's way too loud. In general when I am playing 2 tracks it's way too loud. The only way I can reduce the master volume is to reduce the volume of one track...but then I can't play 2 songs simultaneously with EQ changes for a dynamic mix. However if I cut the highs and the lows of the new track completely...it's way too quiet and I can barely notice the new track!
Basically it's a clusterf**k of volume issues.
Can somebody give me a bit of a lesson here to help me out? I'd really appreciate it.
Btw I tend to listen to liquid DnB...stuff kind of like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjwN3B617tg
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d7JVXu9bac
So not super bassy but not ALL highs...
Help! | Josef Nodar
23.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by bigheadmikelove
That right there is gold...this should be stickied just for that post alone
thank you seriously, mixing drum and bass is different animal than any other genre. i suppose it's comparable to mixing epic trance since both have all the drumrolls and drops...if you can effectively implement "on-the-fly" sampling/juggle battle techniques into a set and still mix it seamlessly, you're a sick-as-fuck dj. i remember teebee, ak1200 and capital j used to put scratch and juggle routines in their live sets but i don't see that anymore these days. kids w/ all these digital toys don't know anything about real battle style techniques, which is a shame imo.
anyways, on the drum and bass tip, i'm always down to help. every other genre i'm just casually listening to, mixing out and about every now and then as a treat so i don't wear out my dnb crates and sound stale ever need a question answered, mix listened to w/ critical feedback, hit me up here or on soundcloud
ez,
-g- | Joie Cantillon
23.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
well...it could be a number of things if you keep jamming eqs together when you're in the mix. if i were to venture a guess, you're either trying to force the mix at a time when the harmonics are just not copacetic enough to not sound all fubar. if you're playing rips, they're probably lossy transcodes or worse, which often leaves dj's in a tight spot when one track is normalized and compressed properly and the other is too quiet, etc etc.
drum and bass is not like techno or house in the slightest, so you have to pay more attention to the phrasing of the tracks themselves because they're doing the majority of the transitioning for you. with 4/4, there aren't nearly as many breakdowns/responses/phrase shifts because you're the one creating them with loops, eq adjustments, processor effects, etc. sometimes with drum and bass, you're better off just cutting the cued track in, lows/mids dialed down and gradually increase while you're dialing down the master track eqs. then when you hit that ambient breakdown with no drums/bass (hypothetically, mind you) you crank the bass/kicks/gain up to compensate for the decrease in volume of the master track. you really have to pick and choose your tracklisting so every track compliments the one before it and the one after...which is why i recommend just taking a crate of 30 or so tracks and mixing them while recording; then, you just listen in earbuds for the discrepancies you missed while monitoring during the mix. i'll cut a mix and listen to it 10x or more, dissecting what worked and what didn't w/ an anal-retentive attitude about how the tracks fit together as a "theme/vibe", the "emotion" the tracklisting invokes w/ the mixing style and order of tracks and how i eq.
in the end, you really just have to know your tracks more than anything. if you're wanting to put out a demo or play out live, it's important to have a "concept" of what your 1 hr set (or more) is going to sound like, how it's going to grab the attention of your audience and also believe if it's something you'd like to hear any other dj play when you're in the audience. with so much diversity within the genre, especially with the formulaic structure of how drum and bass is generally produced, you'll start to notice patterns: when drums change up, when kicks are muted, when the rides and hi-hat loops are inserted at a specific measure to push the track forward and break the monotony of the earlier measures.
generally, there's a lot going on specifically due to the tempo, so you have to mix fast and clean if you're not familiar with the subtleties each track has in relation to the next. set up cue points, use basic addition/subtraction to figure out when/where to bring in your mix then set cue points for when you transition the bass lines from the master to the cue...rinse/repeat build your crate so that four/five tracks mixed together all sound like one really long track then segue into a lower/higher key (i believe they call it "hotmixing": take a 9a down to a 2a/8b to a 3b; by dropping/adding semitones but staying within the major/minor key you can dial down/up the vibe. with key codes, this is generally done in increments of 7 and 5 key codes along the wheel), then more up/down the wheel for another 4/5 tracks then hot-mix again. by doing that you create peaks and valleys, generating an emotive response from the listener more often than not. that diversity and attention to detail goes a loooooooooooooooong way with drum and bass imo.
i hope that makes sense...all things considered, i've been up for like 36 hrs straight trying to catch up on homework before the semester ends, so bear with me if my advice is a little scatterbrained :P i believe the best thing to do is keep in mind what i posted here, then really give an in-depth listen to that mix i have up on the zaptown site, then check out the others i have up on soundcloud. listen to them from beginning to end and the method to the madness will start to make more sense. then start your own practice session with my tips and the mixes in mind, record, and listen/digest it several times. then you can modify accordingly to seperate what worked, what didn't so on and so forth
if you still can't figure it out, maybe try telling me what tracks you're having the most problems mixing, link me to them and i'll see exactly what it is that is giving you fits that way i can try to put them together and show you how i would cue/eq/fade/cut/etc...i believe that makes the most sense if you still can't follow how i'm describing my thought processes.
ez,
-g-
ps: i also recommend downloading podcasts from artists/labels you are digging and giving them an in-depth listen, too. pay attention to how the pros are formulating their mixes and implement their technique into your own. after wrapping your head around the sound for awhile, it will all start to come together. promise!
That right there is gold...this should be stickied just for that post alone | Alan Boldizsar
23.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
well...it could be a number of things if you keep jamming eqs together when you're in the mix. if i were to venture a guess, you're either trying to force the mix at a time when the harmonics are just not copacetic enough to not sound all fubar. if you're playing rips, they're probably lossy transcodes or worse, which often leaves dj's in a tight spot when one track is normalized and compressed properly and the other is too quiet, etc etc.
drum and bass is not like techno or house in the slightest, so you have to pay more attention to the phrasing of the tracks themselves because they're doing the majority of the transitioning for you. with 4/4, there aren't nearly as many breakdowns/responses/phrase shifts because you're the one creating them with loops, eq adjustments, processor effects, etc. sometimes with drum and bass, you're better off just cutting the cued track in, lows/mids dialed down and gradually increase while you're dialing down the master track eqs. then when you hit that ambient breakdown with no drums/bass (hypothetically, mind you) you crank the bass/kicks/gain up to compensate for the decrease in volume of the master track. you really have to pick and choose your tracklisting so every track compliments the one before it and the one after...which is why i recommend just taking a crate of 30 or so tracks and mixing them while recording; then, you just listen in earbuds for the discrepancies you missed while monitoring during the mix. i'll cut a mix and listen to it 10x or more, dissecting what worked and what didn't w/ an anal-retentive attitude about how the tracks fit together as a "theme/vibe", the "emotion" the tracklisting invokes w/ the mixing style and order of tracks and how i eq.
in the end, you really just have to know your tracks more than anything. if you're wanting to put out a demo or play out live, it's important to have a "concept" of what your 1 hr set (or more) is going to sound like, how it's going to grab the attention of your audience and also believe if it's something you'd like to hear any other dj play when you're in the audience. with so much diversity within the genre, especially with the formulaic structure of how drum and bass is generally produced, you'll start to notice patterns: when drums change up, when kicks are muted, when the rides and hi-hat loops are inserted at a specific measure to push the track forward and break the monotony of the earlier measures.
generally, there's a lot going on specifically due to the tempo, so you have to mix fast and clean if you're not familiar with the subtleties each track has in relation to the next. set up cue points, use basic addition/subtraction to figure out when/where to bring in your mix then set cue points for when you transition the bass lines from the master to the cue...rinse/repeat build your crate so that four/five tracks mixed together all sound like one really long track then segue into a lower/higher key (i believe they call it "hotmixing": take a 9a down to a 2a/8b to a 3b; by dropping/adding semitones but staying within the major/minor key you can dial down/up the vibe. with key codes, this is generally done in increments of 7 and 5 key codes along the wheel), then more up/down the wheel for another 4/5 tracks then hot-mix again. by doing that you create peaks and valleys, generating an emotive response from the listener more often than not. that diversity and attention to detail goes a loooooooooooooooong way with drum and bass imo.
i hope that makes sense...all things considered, i've been up for like 36 hrs straight trying to catch up on homework before the semester ends, so bear with me if my advice is a little scatterbrained :P i believe the best thing to do is keep in mind what i posted here, then really give an in-depth listen to that mix i have up on the zaptown site, then check out the others i have up on soundcloud. listen to them from beginning to end and the method to the madness will start to make more sense. then start your own practice session with my tips and the mixes in mind, record, and listen/digest it several times. then you can modify accordingly to seperate what worked, what didn't so on and so forth
if you still can't figure it out, maybe try telling me what tracks you're having the most problems mixing, link me to them and i'll see exactly what it is that is giving you fits that way i can try to put them together and show you how i would cue/eq/fade/cut/etc...i believe that makes the most sense if you still can't follow how i'm describing my thought processes.
ez,
-g-
ps: i also recommend downloading podcasts from artists/labels you are digging and giving them an in-depth listen, too. pay attention to how the pros are formulating their mixes and implement their technique into your own. after wrapping your head around the sound for awhile, it will all start to come together. promise!
Definitely a lot of info there, thanks for that.
Yeah I suppose the main thing I can take away is learning to create faster transitions and making it much more clean. House is a bit more easy because the beginnings and ends are made for mixing...not so much I am finding with DnB. Lows by themselves don't seem to cut it...need to reduce mids as well when bringing a track in. Basically DnB mixing seems more thought-out/careful than standard house...which I suppose I gotta practice.
I mix harmonically as much as I can and listen to a ton of podcasts to notice tricks etc. so that isn't new to me. I did listen to your sets a bit but it's quite hard to tell when a new track is coming in since I am not really familiar with your DnB genre and all the tracks sounds very similar and it sounds like one big song (I guess that means you're doing your job pretty good eh? heh).
Anyway, I believe I got a good gist of what you said there and I will try to apply that. Thanks for in-depth reply! | Alan Boldizsar
22.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
so...if you still have questions i can try and clear some things up for you
Yeah my two main questions pretty much still remain the same. The main issue is just "what is a standard transition", and why is it that whenever I play two songs even with the EQs balanced out (one side is lower than the other in each EQ etc.)...why is it still loud? Dunno if you can answer the 2nd one because that just might be due to me needing to practice/mess around more...so I suppose the first question is more important.
DDM4000 is good, I use it purely for midi. Only unfortunate thing is that not all of the buttons/knobs are midi-compatible which sucks..but the majority of it/all the main stuff is so it works. Midifighters are great, the feel is perfect for good timings. They control 2 decks each in my set-up. | Alan Boldizsar
22.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
i don't know what happened...i pretty much explained how i eq dnb while mixing, the tricks, the treats, etc. i'm procrastinating atm considering i'm supposed to be in class but i'll give you a quick audio explanation if you have the bandwidth and the time to listen. when i get out of class i'll try and give it another go with the typed explanation, but until then i can just link you to some stuff i've done recently so you can get a better glimpse by ear of what i do to minimize/compensate for varying eq freq's/volume levels/mastering quality, etc.
http://www.zaptownmag.com/2011/03/the-mixdown-g
that's a mix i did for an online scene blog/mag here in indy...if it wasn't good they wouldn't post it, trust me
http://www.mediafire.com/?do02cccc11ibr4q
that's just a quick mini-mix i rinsed yesterday while i was bored. i'm trying to record everything, even practice sessions so i can listen later and figure out what works/what doesn't, etc. listening later in earbuds, even passively, can really help you determine leveling issues that are botching your mixes
http://soundcloud.com/fmrl
and that's my soundcloud page that has a couple of other joints i've done in the not-so-distant past. if you want to keep digging, you can go to dnbradio.com and search "FMRL" in the podcast section. it'll pull up all of the archived shows for the past few years. some are not worth the download, i'll admit, considering the majority of the time i'm just goofin' off. i save the fire for stuff like the zaptown mix and real gigs around town
when i get out of class i'll give another rundown of the method i've found to work the best...hopefully by then you've given a listen and can have a better idea of where i'm coming from
ez,
-g-
Sounds awesome thanks! I am checking out your stuff right now. | Alan Boldizsar
22.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
ummmm...what happened here? i made this epic post like two-three hrs ago and now it's not there??? did it get deleted?? or am i going crazy?
Did you Submit Reply or just preview post?
Edit:
Been messing around and I notice that turning down both the mids and lows get rid of that oomph in the track...perhaps transitions with using both mids and lows might be what DnB needs as opposed to the bass-heavy progressive house where just lows will do it... | Alan Boldizsar
21.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by bigheadmikelove
Odd that you say that Drum and Bass has most of the sound in the highs and mids but then I get down to the new hospital tracks and see what you are talking about. One thing I do is use the crossfader rather than the linear faders and then eq mix in everything. Also if you do it harmonically (ie in key) you will be able to have longer mixes especially with songs like those two...If I get done with work at a decent hour this evening I will attempt to make a quick drum and bass mix using songs like that...not that I'm any sort of DJ god but I believe I might be able to help you sort the harmonic blending thing, and I have a few of those hospital tunes....
Be easy
That would be cool. Yeah simply put, my two main questions are:
1. How do I do a standard transition for DnB?
- For progressive house the standard is to just cut the lows of the new one, switch lows, then fade out the old track. I find this doesn't really work for DnB with a lot of the volume being in highs/mids...yet if I do that for prog house technique for highs it just sounds weird.
2. How do I get two songs playing at the same time so that it's not too loud but not too quiet? In terms of EQs...
Again if anybody can help me here I would realllly appreciate it.
Oh and I'll follow you on soundcloud mike, thanks for your reply.
EDIT:
I mix harmonically btw mike so there is no concern with that. | Alan Boldizsar
20.04.2011 | Recently I have been interested in starting to get into mixing drum 'n bass. I come from a progressive house/trance/electro house background and feel quite comfortable with those genres...but drum 'n bass is giving me heck.
The main problem for me is simple EQ transitions. Unlike progressive, the volume isn't necessarily primarily in the lows...it seems to be more in the highs and mids. However, I'm learning that the lows are still necessary to cut for when a new track comes in. The thing is though, if I cut the highs AND the lows of a new track...I can barely hear it coming in. I don't know where the real punch of the track is so when I try to do a low transition where I fully bring in the low and cut the one of the old track...I hardly notice it. If I slightly reduce the lows and highs it's just too loud and goes into the red.
Simply put I need some help on learning how to do basic transitions for DnB.
Another thing, I find that if I am playing one DnB track at standard EQ along with another in which the lows are cut...it's way too loud. In general when I am playing 2 tracks it's way too loud. The only way I can reduce the master volume is to reduce the volume of one track...but then I can't play 2 songs simultaneously with EQ changes for a dynamic mix. However if I cut the highs and the lows of the new track completely...it's way too quiet and I can barely notice the new track!
Basically it's a clusterf**k of volume issues.
Can somebody give me a bit of a lesson here to help me out? I'd really appreciate it.
Btw I tend to listen to liquid DnB...stuff kind of like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjwN3B617tg
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d7JVXu9bac
So not super bassy but not ALL highs...
Help! | Josef Nodar
23.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by bigheadmikelove
That right there is gold...this should be stickied just for that post alone
thank you seriously, mixing drum and bass is different animal than any other genre. i suppose it's comparable to mixing epic trance since both have all the drumrolls and drops...if you can effectively implement "on-the-fly" sampling/juggle battle techniques into a set and still mix it seamlessly, you're a sick-as-fuck dj. i remember teebee, ak1200 and capital j used to put scratch and juggle routines in their live sets but i don't see that anymore these days. kids w/ all these digital toys don't know anything about real battle style techniques, which is a shame imo.
anyways, on the drum and bass tip, i'm always down to help. every other genre i'm just casually listening to, mixing out and about every now and then as a treat so i don't wear out my dnb crates and sound stale ever need a question answered, mix listened to w/ critical feedback, hit me up here or on soundcloud
ez,
-g- | Joie Cantillon
23.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
well...it could be a number of things if you keep jamming eqs together when you're in the mix. if i were to venture a guess, you're either trying to force the mix at a time when the harmonics are just not copacetic enough to not sound all fubar. if you're playing rips, they're probably lossy transcodes or worse, which often leaves dj's in a tight spot when one track is normalized and compressed properly and the other is too quiet, etc etc.
drum and bass is not like techno or house in the slightest, so you have to pay more attention to the phrasing of the tracks themselves because they're doing the majority of the transitioning for you. with 4/4, there aren't nearly as many breakdowns/responses/phrase shifts because you're the one creating them with loops, eq adjustments, processor effects, etc. sometimes with drum and bass, you're better off just cutting the cued track in, lows/mids dialed down and gradually increase while you're dialing down the master track eqs. then when you hit that ambient breakdown with no drums/bass (hypothetically, mind you) you crank the bass/kicks/gain up to compensate for the decrease in volume of the master track. you really have to pick and choose your tracklisting so every track compliments the one before it and the one after...which is why i recommend just taking a crate of 30 or so tracks and mixing them while recording; then, you just listen in earbuds for the discrepancies you missed while monitoring during the mix. i'll cut a mix and listen to it 10x or more, dissecting what worked and what didn't w/ an anal-retentive attitude about how the tracks fit together as a "theme/vibe", the "emotion" the tracklisting invokes w/ the mixing style and order of tracks and how i eq.
in the end, you really just have to know your tracks more than anything. if you're wanting to put out a demo or play out live, it's important to have a "concept" of what your 1 hr set (or more) is going to sound like, how it's going to grab the attention of your audience and also believe if it's something you'd like to hear any other dj play when you're in the audience. with so much diversity within the genre, especially with the formulaic structure of how drum and bass is generally produced, you'll start to notice patterns: when drums change up, when kicks are muted, when the rides and hi-hat loops are inserted at a specific measure to push the track forward and break the monotony of the earlier measures.
generally, there's a lot going on specifically due to the tempo, so you have to mix fast and clean if you're not familiar with the subtleties each track has in relation to the next. set up cue points, use basic addition/subtraction to figure out when/where to bring in your mix then set cue points for when you transition the bass lines from the master to the cue...rinse/repeat build your crate so that four/five tracks mixed together all sound like one really long track then segue into a lower/higher key (i believe they call it "hotmixing": take a 9a down to a 2a/8b to a 3b; by dropping/adding semitones but staying within the major/minor key you can dial down/up the vibe. with key codes, this is generally done in increments of 7 and 5 key codes along the wheel), then more up/down the wheel for another 4/5 tracks then hot-mix again. by doing that you create peaks and valleys, generating an emotive response from the listener more often than not. that diversity and attention to detail goes a loooooooooooooooong way with drum and bass imo.
i hope that makes sense...all things considered, i've been up for like 36 hrs straight trying to catch up on homework before the semester ends, so bear with me if my advice is a little scatterbrained :P i believe the best thing to do is keep in mind what i posted here, then really give an in-depth listen to that mix i have up on the zaptown site, then check out the others i have up on soundcloud. listen to them from beginning to end and the method to the madness will start to make more sense. then start your own practice session with my tips and the mixes in mind, record, and listen/digest it several times. then you can modify accordingly to seperate what worked, what didn't so on and so forth
if you still can't figure it out, maybe try telling me what tracks you're having the most problems mixing, link me to them and i'll see exactly what it is that is giving you fits that way i can try to put them together and show you how i would cue/eq/fade/cut/etc...i believe that makes the most sense if you still can't follow how i'm describing my thought processes.
ez,
-g-
ps: i also recommend downloading podcasts from artists/labels you are digging and giving them an in-depth listen, too. pay attention to how the pros are formulating their mixes and implement their technique into your own. after wrapping your head around the sound for awhile, it will all start to come together. promise!
That right there is gold...this should be stickied just for that post alone | Alan Boldizsar
23.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
well...it could be a number of things if you keep jamming eqs together when you're in the mix. if i were to venture a guess, you're either trying to force the mix at a time when the harmonics are just not copacetic enough to not sound all fubar. if you're playing rips, they're probably lossy transcodes or worse, which often leaves dj's in a tight spot when one track is normalized and compressed properly and the other is too quiet, etc etc.
drum and bass is not like techno or house in the slightest, so you have to pay more attention to the phrasing of the tracks themselves because they're doing the majority of the transitioning for you. with 4/4, there aren't nearly as many breakdowns/responses/phrase shifts because you're the one creating them with loops, eq adjustments, processor effects, etc. sometimes with drum and bass, you're better off just cutting the cued track in, lows/mids dialed down and gradually increase while you're dialing down the master track eqs. then when you hit that ambient breakdown with no drums/bass (hypothetically, mind you) you crank the bass/kicks/gain up to compensate for the decrease in volume of the master track. you really have to pick and choose your tracklisting so every track compliments the one before it and the one after...which is why i recommend just taking a crate of 30 or so tracks and mixing them while recording; then, you just listen in earbuds for the discrepancies you missed while monitoring during the mix. i'll cut a mix and listen to it 10x or more, dissecting what worked and what didn't w/ an anal-retentive attitude about how the tracks fit together as a "theme/vibe", the "emotion" the tracklisting invokes w/ the mixing style and order of tracks and how i eq.
in the end, you really just have to know your tracks more than anything. if you're wanting to put out a demo or play out live, it's important to have a "concept" of what your 1 hr set (or more) is going to sound like, how it's going to grab the attention of your audience and also believe if it's something you'd like to hear any other dj play when you're in the audience. with so much diversity within the genre, especially with the formulaic structure of how drum and bass is generally produced, you'll start to notice patterns: when drums change up, when kicks are muted, when the rides and hi-hat loops are inserted at a specific measure to push the track forward and break the monotony of the earlier measures.
generally, there's a lot going on specifically due to the tempo, so you have to mix fast and clean if you're not familiar with the subtleties each track has in relation to the next. set up cue points, use basic addition/subtraction to figure out when/where to bring in your mix then set cue points for when you transition the bass lines from the master to the cue...rinse/repeat build your crate so that four/five tracks mixed together all sound like one really long track then segue into a lower/higher key (i believe they call it "hotmixing": take a 9a down to a 2a/8b to a 3b; by dropping/adding semitones but staying within the major/minor key you can dial down/up the vibe. with key codes, this is generally done in increments of 7 and 5 key codes along the wheel), then more up/down the wheel for another 4/5 tracks then hot-mix again. by doing that you create peaks and valleys, generating an emotive response from the listener more often than not. that diversity and attention to detail goes a loooooooooooooooong way with drum and bass imo.
i hope that makes sense...all things considered, i've been up for like 36 hrs straight trying to catch up on homework before the semester ends, so bear with me if my advice is a little scatterbrained :P i believe the best thing to do is keep in mind what i posted here, then really give an in-depth listen to that mix i have up on the zaptown site, then check out the others i have up on soundcloud. listen to them from beginning to end and the method to the madness will start to make more sense. then start your own practice session with my tips and the mixes in mind, record, and listen/digest it several times. then you can modify accordingly to seperate what worked, what didn't so on and so forth
if you still can't figure it out, maybe try telling me what tracks you're having the most problems mixing, link me to them and i'll see exactly what it is that is giving you fits that way i can try to put them together and show you how i would cue/eq/fade/cut/etc...i believe that makes the most sense if you still can't follow how i'm describing my thought processes.
ez,
-g-
ps: i also recommend downloading podcasts from artists/labels you are digging and giving them an in-depth listen, too. pay attention to how the pros are formulating their mixes and implement their technique into your own. after wrapping your head around the sound for awhile, it will all start to come together. promise!
Definitely a lot of info there, thanks for that.
Yeah I suppose the main thing I can take away is learning to create faster transitions and making it much more clean. House is a bit more easy because the beginnings and ends are made for mixing...not so much I am finding with DnB. Lows by themselves don't seem to cut it...need to reduce mids as well when bringing a track in. Basically DnB mixing seems more thought-out/careful than standard house...which I suppose I gotta practice.
I mix harmonically as much as I can and listen to a ton of podcasts to notice tricks etc. so that isn't new to me. I did listen to your sets a bit but it's quite hard to tell when a new track is coming in since I am not really familiar with your DnB genre and all the tracks sounds very similar and it sounds like one big song (I guess that means you're doing your job pretty good eh? heh).
Anyway, I believe I got a good gist of what you said there and I will try to apply that. Thanks for in-depth reply! | Josef Nodar
23.04.2011 | well...it could be a number of things if you keep jamming eqs together when you're in the mix. if i were to venture a guess, you're either trying to force the mix at a time when the harmonics are just not copacetic enough to not sound all fubar. if you're playing rips, they're probably lossy transcodes or worse, which often leaves dj's in a tight spot when one track is normalized and compressed properly and the other is too quiet, etc etc.
drum and bass is not like techno or house in the slightest, so you have to pay more attention to the phrasing of the tracks themselves because they're doing the majority of the transitioning for you. with 4/4, there aren't nearly as many breakdowns/responses/phrase shifts because you're the one creating them with loops, eq adjustments, processor effects, etc. sometimes with drum and bass, you're better off just cutting the cued track in, lows/mids dialed down and gradually increase while you're dialing down the master track eqs. then when you hit that ambient breakdown with no drums/bass (hypothetically, mind you) you crank the bass/kicks/gain up to compensate for the decrease in volume of the master track. you really have to pick and choose your tracklisting so every track compliments the one before it and the one after...which is why i recommend just taking a crate of 30 or so tracks and mixing them while recording; then, you just listen in earbuds for the discrepancies you missed while monitoring during the mix. i'll cut a mix and listen to it 10x or more, dissecting what worked and what didn't w/ an anal-retentive attitude about how the tracks fit together as a "theme/vibe", the "emotion" the tracklisting invokes w/ the mixing style and order of tracks and how i eq.
in the end, you really just have to know your tracks more than anything. if you're wanting to put out a demo or play out live, it's important to have a "concept" of what your 1 hr set (or more) is going to sound like, how it's going to grab the attention of your audience and also believe if it's something you'd like to hear any other dj play when you're in the audience. with so much diversity within the genre, especially with the formulaic structure of how drum and bass is generally produced, you'll start to notice patterns: when drums change up, when kicks are muted, when the rides and hi-hat loops are inserted at a specific measure to push the track forward and break the monotony of the earlier measures.
generally, there's a lot going on specifically due to the tempo, so you have to mix fast and clean if you're not familiar with the subtleties each track has in relation to the next. set up cue points, use basic addition/subtraction to figure out when/where to bring in your mix then set cue points for when you transition the bass lines from the master to the cue...rinse/repeat build your crate so that four/five tracks mixed together all sound like one really long track then segue into a lower/higher key (i believe they call it "hotmixing": take a 9a down to a 2a/8b to a 3b; by dropping/adding semitones but staying within the major/minor key you can dial down/up the vibe. with key codes, this is generally done in increments of 7 and 5 key codes along the wheel), then more up/down the wheel for another 4/5 tracks then hot-mix again. by doing that you create peaks and valleys, generating an emotive response from the listener more often than not. that diversity and attention to detail goes a loooooooooooooooong way with drum and bass imo.
i hope that makes sense...all things considered, i've been up for like 36 hrs straight trying to catch up on homework before the semester ends, so bear with me if my advice is a little scatterbrained :P i believe the best thing to do is keep in mind what i posted here, then really give an in-depth listen to that mix i have up on the zaptown site, then check out the others i have up on soundcloud. listen to them from beginning to end and the method to the madness will start to make more sense. then start your own practice session with my tips and the mixes in mind, record, and listen/digest it several times. then you can modify accordingly to seperate what worked, what didn't so on and so forth
if you still can't figure it out, maybe try telling me what tracks you're having the most problems mixing, link me to them and i'll see exactly what it is that is giving you fits that way i can try to put them together and show you how i would cue/eq/fade/cut/etc...i believe that makes the most sense if you still can't follow how i'm describing my thought processes.
ez,
-g-
ps: i also recommend downloading podcasts from artists/labels you are digging and giving them an in-depth listen, too. pay attention to how the pros are formulating their mixes and implement their technique into your own. after wrapping your head around the sound for awhile, it will all start to come together. promise! | Alan Boldizsar
22.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
so...if you still have questions i can try and clear some things up for you
Yeah my two main questions pretty much still remain the same. The main issue is just "what is a standard transition", and why is it that whenever I play two songs even with the EQs balanced out (one side is lower than the other in each EQ etc.)...why is it still loud? Dunno if you can answer the 2nd one because that just might be due to me needing to practice/mess around more...so I suppose the first question is more important.
DDM4000 is good, I use it purely for midi. Only unfortunate thing is that not all of the buttons/knobs are midi-compatible which sucks..but the majority of it/all the main stuff is so it works. Midifighters are great, the feel is perfect for good timings. They control 2 decks each in my set-up. | Josef Nodar
22.04.2011 | also, i see you have a ddm4000 i just got mine about a month ago but haven't even attempted to tinker w/ the midi/sampler/etc. i also see you have two midi fighter controllers how are those working out for you? from the tutorial videos i've watched, they look pretty nifty! | Josef Nodar
22.04.2011 | so...if you still have questions i can try and clear some things up for you | Alan Boldizsar
22.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
i don't know what happened...i pretty much explained how i eq dnb while mixing, the tricks, the treats, etc. i'm procrastinating atm considering i'm supposed to be in class but i'll give you a quick audio explanation if you have the bandwidth and the time to listen. when i get out of class i'll try and give it another go with the typed explanation, but until then i can just link you to some stuff i've done recently so you can get a better glimpse by ear of what i do to minimize/compensate for varying eq freq's/volume levels/mastering quality, etc.
http://www.zaptownmag.com/2011/03/the-mixdown-g
that's a mix i did for an online scene blog/mag here in indy...if it wasn't good they wouldn't post it, trust me
http://www.mediafire.com/?do02cccc11ibr4q
that's just a quick mini-mix i rinsed yesterday while i was bored. i'm trying to record everything, even practice sessions so i can listen later and figure out what works/what doesn't, etc. listening later in earbuds, even passively, can really help you determine leveling issues that are botching your mixes
http://soundcloud.com/fmrl
and that's my soundcloud page that has a couple of other joints i've done in the not-so-distant past. if you want to keep digging, you can go to dnbradio.com and search "FMRL" in the podcast section. it'll pull up all of the archived shows for the past few years. some are not worth the download, i'll admit, considering the majority of the time i'm just goofin' off. i save the fire for stuff like the zaptown mix and real gigs around town
when i get out of class i'll give another rundown of the method i've found to work the best...hopefully by then you've given a listen and can have a better idea of where i'm coming from
ez,
-g-
Sounds awesome thanks! I am checking out your stuff right now. | Josef Nodar
22.04.2011 | i don't know what happened...i pretty much explained how i eq dnb while mixing, the tricks, the treats, etc. i'm procrastinating atm considering i'm supposed to be in class but i'll give you a quick audio explanation if you have the bandwidth and the time to listen. when i get out of class i'll try and give it another go with the typed explanation, but until then i can just link you to some stuff i've done recently so you can get a better glimpse by ear of what i do to minimize/compensate for varying eq freq's/volume levels/mastering quality, etc.
http://www.zaptownmag.com/2011/03/the-mixdown-g
that's a mix i did for an online scene blog/mag here in indy...if it wasn't good they wouldn't post it, trust me
http://www.mediafire.com/?do02cccc11ibr4q
that's just a quick mini-mix i rinsed yesterday while i was bored. i'm trying to record everything, even practice sessions so i can listen later and figure out what works/what doesn't, etc. listening later in earbuds, even passively, can really help you determine leveling issues that are botching your mixes
http://soundcloud.com/fmrl
and that's my soundcloud page that has a couple of other joints i've done in the not-so-distant past. if you want to keep digging, you can go to dnbradio.com and search "FMRL" in the podcast section. it'll pull up all of the archived shows for the past few years. some are not worth the download, i'll admit, considering the majority of the time i'm just goofin' off. i save the fire for stuff like the zaptown mix and real gigs around town
when i get out of class i'll give another rundown of the method i've found to work the best...hopefully by then you've given a listen and can have a better idea of where i'm coming from
ez,
-g- | Alan Boldizsar
22.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by _FMRL_
ummmm...what happened here? i made this epic post like two-three hrs ago and now it's not there??? did it get deleted?? or am i going crazy?
Did you Submit Reply or just preview post?
Edit:
Been messing around and I notice that turning down both the mids and lows get rid of that oomph in the track...perhaps transitions with using both mids and lows might be what DnB needs as opposed to the bass-heavy progressive house where just lows will do it... | Josef Nodar
22.04.2011 | ummmm...what happened here? i made this epic post like two-three hrs ago and now it's not there??? did it get deleted?? or am i going crazy? | Alan Boldizsar
22.04.2011 | Little bump...any tips please? | Alan Boldizsar
21.04.2011 |
Originally Posted by bigheadmikelove
Odd that you say that Drum and Bass has most of the sound in the highs and mids but then I get down to the new hospital tracks and see what you are talking about. One thing I do is use the crossfader rather than the linear faders and then eq mix in everything. Also if you do it harmonically (ie in key) you will be able to have longer mixes especially with songs like those two...If I get done with work at a decent hour this evening I will attempt to make a quick drum and bass mix using songs like that...not that I'm any sort of DJ god but I believe I might be able to help you sort the harmonic blending thing, and I have a few of those hospital tunes....
Be easy
That would be cool. Yeah simply put, my two main questions are:
1. How do I do a standard transition for DnB?
- For progressive house the standard is to just cut the lows of the new one, switch lows, then fade out the old track. I find this doesn't really work for DnB with a lot of the volume being in highs/mids...yet if I do that for prog house technique for highs it just sounds weird.
2. How do I get two songs playing at the same time so that it's not too loud but not too quiet? In terms of EQs...
Again if anybody can help me here I would realllly appreciate it.
Oh and I'll follow you on soundcloud mike, thanks for your reply.
EDIT:
I mix harmonically btw mike so there is no concern with that. | Joie Cantillon
21.04.2011 | Odd that you say that Drum and Bass has most of the sound in the highs and mids but then I get down to the new hospital tracks and see what you are talking about. One thing I do is use the crossfader rather than the linear faders and then eq mix in everything. Also if you do it harmonically (ie in key) you will be able to have longer mixes especially with songs like those two...If I get done with work at a decent hour this evening I will attempt to make a quick drum and bass mix using songs like that...not that I'm any sort of DJ god but I believe I might be able to help you sort the harmonic blending thing, and I have a few of those hospital tunes....
Be easy |
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