Akai midi controller vs Ableton new "Push" midi controller

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Akai midi controller vs Ableton new "Push" midi controller
Posted on: 26.10.2012 by Shanel Batch
Question for my DJTT compadres here. I'm actually a guy with no previous knowledge about music in general just a person who enjoy the way music is played at the clubs and that love to play around with music gear but I guess I got into this a bit late maybe since I got a house full of kids now that is. Well enough about me, the question is the fallowing: Are akai Midi controller like the "MPK61" basically the same as using a "Push" which is the new controller Ableton will be releasing. I like the idea of play with the "MPK" because I feel comfortable playing the Midi as a Piano (keyboard) or using the "Push" will provide more control to operating the Ableton software. Let me know what you believe. Thanks
Ervin Calvery
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by crakbot
I really love Ableton, but I've come to realize one thing. Modern production is done with a mouse. Basically, it's 5% inputting notes or beats, then 95% clicking, editing, and re-sampling using effects and VSTs.

Of course, it depends on the music you make. If you like genres that are minimal, then you can use devices like Push. But things like progressive house or pop are becoming too labor intensive to do with any controller.

So basically, whatever can get the notes in the best for you is what you need. Once the notes are down, you need to use a mouse.

People hate that, that's why they get so hyped when controllers like Push come out. But it's all a mirage. The same with the APC 40, most people that have it don't really use it for producing, unless like I said, you produce super simple styles of music.

Go back and watch the Push demo, sounds like bunch of boring ass loops. That's all you can do when producing with a controller.
But who performs with a mouse?
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by crakbot
I really love Ableton, but I've come to realize one thing. Modern production is done with a mouse. Basically, it's 5% inputting notes or beats, then 95% clicking, editing, and re-sampling using effects and VSTs.

Of course, it depends on the music you make. If you like genres that are minimal, then you can use devices like Push. But things like progressive house or pop are becoming too labor intensive to do with any controller.

So basically, whatever can get the notes in the best for you is what you need. Once the notes are down, you need to use a mouse.

People hate that, that's why they get so hyped when controllers like Push come out. But it's all a mirage. The same with the APC 40, most people that have it don't really use it for producing, unless like I said, you produce super simple styles of music.

Go back and watch the Push demo, sounds like bunch of boring ass loops. That's all you can do when producing with a controller.
Sad but true. There is a lot of automation involved and it would take as long to program something to control automation than to just paint it using a mouse.
Shanel Batch
29.10.2012
Originally Posted by Patch
The answer to your question is NO. Pad controllers like the Akai's are performance controllers. The Push is basically a front end for producing in Ableton. And an awesome one at that.

I don't believe there's anything that you can do with a pad controller that you CAN'T do with the Push.

But there's a WHOLE lot that the Push can do that pad controllers can't. (Unless you've got an unnatural LOVE for large drum pads... )
Thank for the info to each of you. I guess it comes down to how I like my workflow to feel. Both way I should get good resort. The one thing that I like about using an Akai type of controller is the feeling of being playing a more natural musical instrument which may be the deciding factor at this time for which I go with it, Plus I'm not doing many club gig hence the "Push" controller would had being the best option considering space. Thank a lot for the on point information.
Loreta Altema
27.10.2012
Originally Posted by Ls4life
Thank Pete, To try to answer some of you question let me say that I invested some money already on some NI gear and software. I presently have the S4 & F1 and to be clear event the Maschine-Mikro. I play mainly at friends and family events because I feel I got lot of more development to do to feel rather like a better than average DJ. Spinning other DJ mixed song its okey to a point but I feel like I'm not being original. So I'm looking for some creativity and since I have Maschine I know that great things can be done with it, and then I came across Ableton and enjoy what I saw. The Person I saw was using an Akai MPK49 which look more like a real musical instrument than a controller which is something I always wanted to learn how to play but I do not want to sacrificed the software manageability by the controller type. So to summarize what I believe I'm looking to do is to play as good as a respectable club Dj but be original on music mixed and style of playing. Jajaja I got to laugh at me because I want to do all this with house full of kids. Sorry for the long explanation.

From my experience:

I started out with Ableton, tried pretty much everything in between and now have been using it as my go to for the past 6+ months.. I love it and you can do basically anything you need within it. Now saying that, its a bitch and a half to get your head around, and once you start understanding things, you realize you know absolutley nothing and this is going to be a VERRRRRRRYYYYYY long journey. If your aren't ready for the journey then find another piece of software.. With that said...

Its hard to comment on the Push as it hasn't been released yet. I will be picking one up to try for myself. If you plan on trying to produce anything or ever want to play in some synth lines, or drum beats, i honestly have to say, for me, nothing beats a keyboard.... I am a synth lover through and through so i spend most of my time just designing obscure sounds, basslines and synths, but i have come to find out that my two most used tools in Live is my keyboard and my APC running as a step sequencer.. I dont ever seem to use my padKontrol and when i do its on full velocity and i just go back and adjust inside Live. It really depends on your workflow, and how you approach Live when you sit down and get inspired. I've found some gear to inspire me to no ends(APC), while other gear i thought i was going to LLOOVVEEE just didn't do anything for me(launchpad)... Everyone comes at Live different and will ultimately need a different set of "tools" for their job. For me, I need at least 49 keys9(prefer 88) w/ pitchbend and modwheel, something to run 2- 16 step sequences on, 6+ faders, 8+ endless encoders, and an external mixer..(i prefer to have pots for eq'ing thats why i like to externally mix)

My biggest piece of advice I can give is TAKE YOUR TIME. Test stuff out, watch reviews, believe about how you could use it, how often would it get used, is it realistic for your situation vs the price? If it passes all those and you still believe you need it, sleep on it for a week, then if ya still have to have it, go ahead and buy it... Honestly i wasted too much time and hard earned money just finding out that I really didn't like the latest "fad" or that new controller that seemed to have everything i ever wanted just to be disappointed.. IMO, you can't ever go wrong with a midi keyboard that has some faders, few encoders, and a couple drum pads.. You could Mix, Play, Jam, do anything with just that, and honestly, everything else other then that is just bonus...


haha, sorry for the damn book, hope you got something out of it at least..
Shanel Batch
27.10.2012
Originally Posted by PeteWoods
basically you need to know what you want from a controller man, you sound to me like you definitely want to use ableton, but there are many different options. you're opening a whole can of worms because there are literally so many controllers out there. do you just want to play 2 tracks at a time and mix them? or use loops to build tracks on the fly?

theres always the apc40 if you want direct integration as well! tell us more what you intend to do with your djing, and if you're intending on producing as well, how you sort of want everything to fit together. theres so many controllers that fit different workflows, and so much software out there if you decided just to opt for a straight up 4 decks dj software instead.
welcome to djing by the way mate
Thank Pete, To try to answer some of you question let me say that I invested some money already on some NI gear and software. I presently have the S4 & F1 and to be clear event the Maschine-Mikro. I play mainly at friends and family events because I feel I got lot of more development to do to feel rather like a better than average DJ. Spinning other DJ mixed song its okey to a point but I feel like I'm not being original. So I'm looking for some creativity and since I have Maschine I know that great things can be done with it, and then I came across Ableton and enjoy what I saw. The Person I saw was using an Akai MPK49 which look more like a real musical instrument than a controller which is something I always wanted to learn how to play but I do not want to sacrificed the software manageability by the controller type. So to summarize what I believe I'm looking to do is to play as good as a respectable club Dj but be original on music mixed and style of playing. Jajaja I got to laugh at me because I want to do all this with house full of kids. Sorry for the long explanation.
Shanel Batch
26.10.2012		Question for my DJTT compadres here. I'm actually a guy with no previous knowledge about music in general just a person who enjoy the way music is played at the clubs and that love to play around with music gear but I guess I got into this a bit late maybe since I got a house full of kids now that is. Well enough about me, the question is the fallowing: Are akai Midi controller like the "MPK61" basically the same as using a "Push" which is the new controller Ableton will be releasing. I like the idea of play with the "MPK" because I feel comfortable playing the Midi as a Piano (keyboard) or using the "Push" will provide more control to operating the Ableton software. Let me know what you believe. Thanks
Brunilda Kora
31.10.2012		I see The Push as an efficient way to sketch out your ideas. You'll still need to do all the tweaking with a mouse/key shortcuts after you've got the initial idea arranged.

I'd imagine iLL Gates will get on to The Push (if Ableton haven't already got him involved - an I bet they have!). The idea of a hardware controller that you can use to sketch out ideas ties in perfectly with his iLL Methodolgy for production.
Fatimah Czuprynski
30.10.2012		It's all about the music you create. I use my maschine in combination with ableton. Using maschine let me use ableton more like an instrument because i don't need to waste my time programming everything. i just do and play raw house music. and that will be possible on the push i believe. just like it is possible with the maschine.
Ervin Calvery
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by crakbot
I really love Ableton, but I've come to realize one thing. Modern production is done with a mouse. Basically, it's 5% inputting notes or beats, then 95% clicking, editing, and re-sampling using effects and VSTs.

Of course, it depends on the music you make. If you like genres that are minimal, then you can use devices like Push. But things like progressive house or pop are becoming too labor intensive to do with any controller.

So basically, whatever can get the notes in the best for you is what you need. Once the notes are down, you need to use a mouse.

People hate that, that's why they get so hyped when controllers like Push come out. But it's all a mirage. The same with the APC 40, most people that have it don't really use it for producing, unless like I said, you produce super simple styles of music.

Go back and watch the Push demo, sounds like bunch of boring ass loops. That's all you can do when producing with a controller.
But who performs with a mouse?
Celine Surico
30.10.2012		Funny, I have the same observation. Mouse and trackpad. Heck, I'm doing production the same way as Skrillex :-).

Every time I place a controller next to my monitor I seldom use it, keyboards being an exception. Volume levels, panning, automation, setting parameters, works just fine with a mouse and keyboard. Even creating patterns. I could even do drum patterns with a controller keyboard, that's not a big deal.

But I live and with with a really good trackpad or mouse.
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012
Originally Posted by crakbot
I really love Ableton, but I've come to realize one thing. Modern production is done with a mouse. Basically, it's 5% inputting notes or beats, then 95% clicking, editing, and re-sampling using effects and VSTs.

Of course, it depends on the music you make. If you like genres that are minimal, then you can use devices like Push. But things like progressive house or pop are becoming too labor intensive to do with any controller.

So basically, whatever can get the notes in the best for you is what you need. Once the notes are down, you need to use a mouse.

People hate that, that's why they get so hyped when controllers like Push come out. But it's all a mirage. The same with the APC 40, most people that have it don't really use it for producing, unless like I said, you produce super simple styles of music.

Go back and watch the Push demo, sounds like bunch of boring ass loops. That's all you can do when producing with a controller.
Sad but true. There is a lot of automation involved and it would take as long to program something to control automation than to just paint it using a mouse.
Frieda Swoboda
30.10.2012		I really love Ableton, but I've come to realize one thing. Modern production is done with a mouse. Basically, it's 5% inputting notes or beats, then 95% clicking, editing, and re-sampling using effects and VSTs.

Of course, it depends on the music you make. If you like genres that are minimal, then you can use devices like Push. But things like progressive house or pop are becoming too labor intensive to do with any controller.

So basically, whatever can get the notes in the best for you is what you need. Once the notes are down, you need to use a mouse.

People hate that, that's why they get so hyped when controllers like Push come out. But it's all a mirage. The same with the APC 40, most people that have it don't really use it for producing, unless like I said, you produce super simple styles of music.

Go back and watch the Push demo, sounds like bunch of boring ass loops. That's all you can do when producing with a controller.
Celine Surico
30.10.2012		Push is indeed very expensive. Bake in the Live 9 license as well in case you don't have an upgrade price.
Elmer Hingson
30.10.2012		It seems to me like push is hella expensive. Personally, I'd rather an apc or launchpad. All these controllers are good for either playing live or producing. It mostly boils down to how well you can map midi, which controller you're more comfortable with, and what your cash flow is.
Erich Vallabhaneni
31.10.2012		I vote for the Push from what it sounds like you want to do. You wanna make original material and play it live like a musical instrument, so that would be a great controller to do it with especially since you can have the step sequencer and drum pads at the same time. Like said a billion times above, it comes down to your workflow.
Brunilda Kora
30.10.2012		I really like the idea of a using The Push alongside a decent pad controller. If The Push REALLY IS the hardware front end that we've all always wantd for Live, I'll be getting one. In fact - I might sell my Axiom 49 in preparation for the buying the Push...

I REALLY like that idea...

Tom Cosm likes it - and that dude knows his shit.
Shanel Batch
29.10.2012
Originally Posted by Patch
The answer to your question is NO. Pad controllers like the Akai's are performance controllers. The Push is basically a front end for producing in Ableton. And an awesome one at that.

I don't believe there's anything that you can do with a pad controller that you CAN'T do with the Push.

But there's a WHOLE lot that the Push can do that pad controllers can't. (Unless you've got an unnatural LOVE for large drum pads... )
Thank for the info to each of you. I guess it comes down to how I like my workflow to feel. Both way I should get good resort. The one thing that I like about using an Akai type of controller is the feeling of being playing a more natural musical instrument which may be the deciding factor at this time for which I go with it, Plus I'm not doing many club gig hence the "Push" controller would had being the best option considering space. Thank a lot for the on point information.
Brunilda Kora
28.10.2012		The answer to your question is NO. Pad controllers like the Akai's are performance controllers. The Push is basically a front end for producing in Ableton. And an awesome one at that.

I don't believe there's anything that you can do with a pad controller that you CAN'T do with the Push.

But there's a WHOLE lot that the Push can do that pad controllers can't. (Unless you've got an unnatural LOVE for large drum pads... )
Emanuel Kepics
28.10.2012		I can't imagine a more inspiring Ableton Live controller than Push ... seriously good I'm sure.
Loreta Altema
27.10.2012
Originally Posted by Ls4life
Thank Pete, To try to answer some of you question let me say that I invested some money already on some NI gear and software. I presently have the S4 & F1 and to be clear event the Maschine-Mikro. I play mainly at friends and family events because I feel I got lot of more development to do to feel rather like a better than average DJ. Spinning other DJ mixed song its okey to a point but I feel like I'm not being original. So I'm looking for some creativity and since I have Maschine I know that great things can be done with it, and then I came across Ableton and enjoy what I saw. The Person I saw was using an Akai MPK49 which look more like a real musical instrument than a controller which is something I always wanted to learn how to play but I do not want to sacrificed the software manageability by the controller type. So to summarize what I believe I'm looking to do is to play as good as a respectable club Dj but be original on music mixed and style of playing. Jajaja I got to laugh at me because I want to do all this with house full of kids. Sorry for the long explanation.

From my experience:

I started out with Ableton, tried pretty much everything in between and now have been using it as my go to for the past 6+ months.. I love it and you can do basically anything you need within it. Now saying that, its a bitch and a half to get your head around, and once you start understanding things, you realize you know absolutley nothing and this is going to be a VERRRRRRRYYYYYY long journey. If your aren't ready for the journey then find another piece of software.. With that said...

Its hard to comment on the Push as it hasn't been released yet. I will be picking one up to try for myself. If you plan on trying to produce anything or ever want to play in some synth lines, or drum beats, i honestly have to say, for me, nothing beats a keyboard.... I am a synth lover through and through so i spend most of my time just designing obscure sounds, basslines and synths, but i have come to find out that my two most used tools in Live is my keyboard and my APC running as a step sequencer.. I dont ever seem to use my padKontrol and when i do its on full velocity and i just go back and adjust inside Live. It really depends on your workflow, and how you approach Live when you sit down and get inspired. I've found some gear to inspire me to no ends(APC), while other gear i thought i was going to LLOOVVEEE just didn't do anything for me(launchpad)... Everyone comes at Live different and will ultimately need a different set of "tools" for their job. For me, I need at least 49 keys9(prefer 88) w/ pitchbend and modwheel, something to run 2- 16 step sequences on, 6+ faders, 8+ endless encoders, and an external mixer..(i prefer to have pots for eq'ing thats why i like to externally mix)

My biggest piece of advice I can give is TAKE YOUR TIME. Test stuff out, watch reviews, believe about how you could use it, how often would it get used, is it realistic for your situation vs the price? If it passes all those and you still believe you need it, sleep on it for a week, then if ya still have to have it, go ahead and buy it... Honestly i wasted too much time and hard earned money just finding out that I really didn't like the latest "fad" or that new controller that seemed to have everything i ever wanted just to be disappointed.. IMO, you can't ever go wrong with a midi keyboard that has some faders, few encoders, and a couple drum pads.. You could Mix, Play, Jam, do anything with just that, and honestly, everything else other then that is just bonus...


haha, sorry for the damn book, hope you got something out of it at least..
Shanel Batch
27.10.2012
Originally Posted by PeteWoods
basically you need to know what you want from a controller man, you sound to me like you definitely want to use ableton, but there are many different options. you're opening a whole can of worms because there are literally so many controllers out there. do you just want to play 2 tracks at a time and mix them? or use loops to build tracks on the fly?

theres always the apc40 if you want direct integration as well! tell us more what you intend to do with your djing, and if you're intending on producing as well, how you sort of want everything to fit together. theres so many controllers that fit different workflows, and so much software out there if you decided just to opt for a straight up 4 decks dj software instead.
welcome to djing by the way mate
Thank Pete, To try to answer some of you question let me say that I invested some money already on some NI gear and software. I presently have the S4 & F1 and to be clear event the Maschine-Mikro. I play mainly at friends and family events because I feel I got lot of more development to do to feel rather like a better than average DJ. Spinning other DJ mixed song its okey to a point but I feel like I'm not being original. So I'm looking for some creativity and since I have Maschine I know that great things can be done with it, and then I came across Ableton and enjoy what I saw. The Person I saw was using an Akai MPK49 which look more like a real musical instrument than a controller which is something I always wanted to learn how to play but I do not want to sacrificed the software manageability by the controller type. So to summarize what I believe I'm looking to do is to play as good as a respectable club Dj but be original on music mixed and style of playing. Jajaja I got to laugh at me because I want to do all this with house full of kids. Sorry for the long explanation.
Birgit Gondal
26.10.2012		basically you need to know what you want from a controller man, you sound to me like you definitely want to use ableton, but there are many different options. you're opening a whole can of worms because there are literally so many controllers out there. do you just want to play 2 tracks at a time and mix them? or use loops to build tracks on the fly?

theres always the apc40 if you want direct integration as well! tell us more what you intend to do with your djing, and if you're intending on producing as well, how you sort of want everything to fit together. theres so many controllers that fit different workflows, and so much software out there if you decided just to opt for a straight up 4 decks dj software instead.
welcome to djing by the way mate

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