PA System HELP!!!
PA System HELP!!! Posted on: 05.08.2013 by Leanne Nwogu So in my mobile setup I have 2 JBL active speakers and an active seismic Audio 18'' subwoofer along with a Yamaha 12-channel mixer. I was wondering with the inputs/outputs available to me what the best way to hook all of this gear
together would be. The way I have been going about it was to daisy chain the two JBL's to the Subwoofer and the the subwoofer back to the Mixer but have been experiencing issues such as heavy clipping and am weary of an underlying problem that if fixed, would provide much better sound quality overall. I am amateur at best when it comes to live audio so I am really scratching my head on how to resolve this issue. I've attached picture of the inputs and outputs on my two JBL's and the Seismic Audio Sub and also a picture of the mixer although it is not the exact same mixer as I have it is very similar. If anybody has any guidance or tips that could help me fix this issue I would GREATLY APPRECIATE IT! Thanks in advance!JBL EON inputs outputs.jpgSeismic Audio Sub Inputs Outputs.jpgMixer.jpg Best, Tj D | |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by robdquick
Indeed when the clipping began I did notice that the master volume indicator was staying in the red. The only problem was when I turned down the main volume on the 4trak the clipping seemed to be muffled but we also lost significant volume. As for the 4trak it does control Traktors internal mixer in my setup. Unfortunately the Mic I usually use requires phantom power which I do not believe the 4trak can provide, because I have tried to use the mic with my 4trak before, but my yamaha mixer does have so that is why I had to improvise with the kaoss pad. |
| Cassie Sangermano 06.08.2013 | Just looked up the specs of the sub, it doesn't have any crossover settings at all. This doesn't mean you can't use it daisy chained with the tops though, just means that the bass will also come through the tops as well as the sub. The tops have a bass vol control, I would probably turn it down until it sounded alright.
Originally Posted by CasperI
If the distortion was coming through on your headphones the it means that traktor was clipping. Was the bar at the top of traktor going red? Does the 4trak act as external mixer, or does it control traktor's internal mixer?? After looking at the specs for the 4trak, 2 of the channels are switchable to mic, so you should just be able to connect a mic directly to it rather than running through the kaoss pad. If you need more than just a mic (other instruments ect) then you should just be able to run straight out of the mains on your 4trak into the yamaha mixer. |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by CasperI
Thanks for the feedback. I believe on the Eon's the default setting is on "line" but when we switch to mic and have the subwoofer chained with them, there is no audio from the Eon's and all audio seems to be coming through the subwoofer. When we switch back to "line" the audio comes out of the eon's once more. As for the clipping in the headphones after some research I have seen that some other people with the 4trak have experienced clipping in their headphones but it is not clear whether or not they had clipping from their speakers. |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by robdquick
So when I had the Eon's directly plugged into the 4trak we had it at a .75 setting and when I said the volume was overly sensitive I meant that when I turned the master up it was a dramatic increase. This caused me to turn the gain all the way down on 3 channels of the 4trak which allowed me to turn the master up and I simply adjusted the gain of each channel individually as needed. The reason I did this was because by connecting the Eon's to my 4trak directly I sacrificed use of my mixer which also meant that I couldn't use my microphone SO I had to improvise by using my Korg MiniKaoss Pad 2 as a mic by changing one channel on the 4trak to a "line in" input. The only problem was I wasn't getting enough volume so that is why I turned the gain all the way down on channels A,B, and C and on channel D I had to have the gain all the way up plus the master all the way up in order for the Kaosspad to act as a microphone. This configuration is not ideal so that Is the reason why I am seeking to figure out a way that all audio can be run through the mixer somehow that way I have extra channels for the microphone or other instruments as needed. As for the clipping it seemed to be coming from the sub and the eon's equally but it was easily heard from the eon's and it was just really loud clipping that seemed to match the volume of the signal coming from the 4trak no matter what mixer component we tried to tweak. I failed to mention in my original post that this clipping did not start until about 5 hrs into a 6 hr set. The reason being is that I do not believe that the clipping was from fatigue but rather from faulty setup because from the get go the subwoofer was flashing a red indicator bulb that signifies too much power being output from the subwoofer when in reality the sub seemed to be putting out minimal power as far as sound goes. One more thing I'd like to mention that I failed to mention in my original post is that this clipping was also heard in my headphones that were connected to the 4trak which probably means that Traktor was experiencing this clipping in the software as well? |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by robdquick
From what I've read I'm not entirely sure that the subwoofer has any crossover settings. The sub is actually in storage and I haven't been able to drop by and snap some close ups of the back panel but I will do so later today and post. I also read in a pro audio community (in which I've already posed the same query), that most seismic audio subwoofers cannot be daisy-chained with "tops" because there is not a "high pass" signal available? The post is outdated and I believe our SA Sub to be a newer model but it seems that for their line of subs they do not provide any internal crossover or high pass frequencies. Here is the product description page of the subwoofer. The bottom of the page contains the specs if that helps at all: http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/...ershock-18.htm I am in the market for a subwoofer of better quality but am just trying to research and take my time instead of making an impulse purchase as I did on this subwoofer so if you have any suggestions that would seem appropriate with the JBL Eons' for a, currently, small mobile DJ setup that input would also be appreciated . It seems like it is decent quality but I know there are much better options. |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by HighTopFade
Although I have yet to try and plug the JBL's into the mixer, left and right, I wonder if this configuration would allow me to chain the Subwoofer to one or both of my tops? |
| Leanne Nwogu 05.08.2013 | So in my mobile setup I have 2 JBL active speakers and an active seismic Audio 18'' subwoofer along with a Yamaha 12-channel mixer. I was wondering with the inputs/outputs available to me what the best way to hook all of this gear
together would be. The way I have been going about it was to daisy chain the two JBL's to the Subwoofer and the the subwoofer back to the Mixer but have been experiencing issues such as heavy clipping and am weary of an underlying problem that if fixed, would provide much better sound quality overall. I am amateur at best when it comes to live audio so I am really scratching my head on how to resolve this issue. I've attached picture of the inputs and outputs on my two JBL's and the Seismic Audio Sub and also a picture of the mixer although it is not the exact same mixer as I have it is very similar. If anybody has any guidance or tips that could help me fix this issue I would GREATLY APPRECIATE IT! Thanks in advance! JBL EON inputs outputs.jpgSeismic Audio Sub Inputs Outputs.jpgMixer.jpg Best, Tj D |
| Cassie Sangermano 06.08.2013 | No problem. When I started out i had to figure a lot of this stuff out by myself, so I don't mind helping other people! If you have any more questions feel free to come back and post!! |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 | Well thank you again! You definitely seem to know your way around a mobile DJ setup so I will try and use these tips the next time we do a mock setup(Probably Wednesday) so I can try and narrow down the exact source of some of the issues I am experiencing. |
| Cassie Sangermano 06.08.2013 | The main volume on the 4trak is probably just controlling the controllers output, and not traktors main volume. Try turning traktors main volume down a bit (I usually have mine set at about -5db when I'm playing at full volume). It's the big knob in the center at the top of traktor. Ahhh ok, no good in this case then. Still, you can run the out from the 4trak into your yamaha, plus anything else you need, and then just run out from the yamaha to your speakers. Edit: The traktor main volume problem is probably the cause of all your distortions problems! |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by robdquick
Indeed when the clipping began I did notice that the master volume indicator was staying in the red. The only problem was when I turned down the main volume on the 4trak the clipping seemed to be muffled but we also lost significant volume. As for the 4trak it does control Traktors internal mixer in my setup. Unfortunately the Mic I usually use requires phantom power which I do not believe the 4trak can provide, because I have tried to use the mic with my 4trak before, but my yamaha mixer does have so that is why I had to improvise with the kaoss pad. |
| Cassie Sangermano 06.08.2013 | Just looked up the specs of the sub, it doesn't have any crossover settings at all. This doesn't mean you can't use it daisy chained with the tops though, just means that the bass will also come through the tops as well as the sub. The tops have a bass vol control, I would probably turn it down until it sounded alright.
Originally Posted by CasperI
If the distortion was coming through on your headphones the it means that traktor was clipping. Was the bar at the top of traktor going red? Does the 4trak act as external mixer, or does it control traktor's internal mixer?? After looking at the specs for the 4trak, 2 of the channels are switchable to mic, so you should just be able to connect a mic directly to it rather than running through the kaoss pad. If you need more than just a mic (other instruments ect) then you should just be able to run straight out of the mains on your 4trak into the yamaha mixer. |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by CasperI
Thanks for the feedback. I believe on the Eon's the default setting is on "line" but when we switch to mic and have the subwoofer chained with them, there is no audio from the Eon's and all audio seems to be coming through the subwoofer. When we switch back to "line" the audio comes out of the eon's once more. As for the clipping in the headphones after some research I have seen that some other people with the 4trak have experienced clipping in their headphones but it is not clear whether or not they had clipping from their speakers. |
| Malisa Aivazian 06.08.2013 | It sounds like the tops is extremely sensitive .. Sure you haven't pressed the button that toggles between "Line" and "Mic"? That would cause a behavior like that + that would explain the early distortion. If you experience clipping in the headphones, the bad signal is coming from either software or controller. Try to plug it into another speaker system and see if it sounds the same. |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by robdquick
So when I had the Eon's directly plugged into the 4trak we had it at a .75 setting and when I said the volume was overly sensitive I meant that when I turned the master up it was a dramatic increase. This caused me to turn the gain all the way down on 3 channels of the 4trak which allowed me to turn the master up and I simply adjusted the gain of each channel individually as needed. The reason I did this was because by connecting the Eon's to my 4trak directly I sacrificed use of my mixer which also meant that I couldn't use my microphone SO I had to improvise by using my Korg MiniKaoss Pad 2 as a mic by changing one channel on the 4trak to a "line in" input. The only problem was I wasn't getting enough volume so that is why I turned the gain all the way down on channels A,B, and C and on channel D I had to have the gain all the way up plus the master all the way up in order for the Kaosspad to act as a microphone. This configuration is not ideal so that Is the reason why I am seeking to figure out a way that all audio can be run through the mixer somehow that way I have extra channels for the microphone or other instruments as needed. As for the clipping it seemed to be coming from the sub and the eon's equally but it was easily heard from the eon's and it was just really loud clipping that seemed to match the volume of the signal coming from the 4trak no matter what mixer component we tried to tweak. I failed to mention in my original post that this clipping did not start until about 5 hrs into a 6 hr set. The reason being is that I do not believe that the clipping was from fatigue but rather from faulty setup because from the get go the subwoofer was flashing a red indicator bulb that signifies too much power being output from the subwoofer when in reality the sub seemed to be putting out minimal power as far as sound goes. One more thing I'd like to mention that I failed to mention in my original post is that this clipping was also heard in my headphones that were connected to the 4trak which probably means that Traktor was experiencing this clipping in the software as well? |
| Cassie Sangermano 06.08.2013 | What do you mean by overly sensitive?? If you turn the volume up on your controller just a little bit the output from the tops is a massive jump?? In this case, try turn the speakers down to maybe say 0.5, that should hopefully give you a bit more control from the master vol on your 4trak. When using with the sub, when you said you had heavy clipping, was this from the tops, the sub or both?? Was it just clipping lights on the speakers, or did it sound like it was clipping/distorting?? |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by robdquick
From what I've read I'm not entirely sure that the subwoofer has any crossover settings. The sub is actually in storage and I haven't been able to drop by and snap some close ups of the back panel but I will do so later today and post. I also read in a pro audio community (in which I've already posed the same query), that most seismic audio subwoofers cannot be daisy-chained with "tops" because there is not a "high pass" signal available? The post is outdated and I believe our SA Sub to be a newer model but it seems that for their line of subs they do not provide any internal crossover or high pass frequencies. Here is the product description page of the subwoofer. The bottom of the page contains the specs if that helps at all: http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/...ershock-18.htm I am in the market for a subwoofer of better quality but am just trying to research and take my time instead of making an impulse purchase as I did on this subwoofer so if you have any suggestions that would seem appropriate with the JBL Eons' for a, currently, small mobile DJ setup that input would also be appreciated . It seems like it is decent quality but I know there are much better options. |
| Leanne Nwogu 06.08.2013 |
Originally Posted by HighTopFade
Although I have yet to try and plug the JBL's into the mixer, left and right, I wonder if this configuration would allow me to chain the Subwoofer to one or both of my tops? |
| Cassie Sangermano 06.08.2013 | What sort of crossover settings are there on the sub (if any??) and what do you have them set at?? I couldn't tell what all the knobs on the back of the sub are from the pic. |
| Rena Estabrook 06.08.2013 | How does it sound with just the JBL tops? |
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